930 to RSR backdate again

david63 · 11-18-2009, 09:08 PM

Like about half the Porsche folks out there, I love the look of the 73 longhood RSR.
When I search this forum it is a little overwhelming to try and filter through all the posts on RSR stuff. I will throw out a couple of questions and see what I run into. I am looking at a possible purchase of a 930 (great flares, brakes, suspension, power, etc). I would like to backdate the car with the following:
Purchase Getty fiberglass RSR bumpers front and rear - not too hard to do the backdate from what I read - some work with brackets etc
Purchase Getty fiberglass ducktail - I know some work will be involved to fit the intercooler, but I know a fellow Pelican did it (Paul Rodelo forgive the misspelling)
Purchase either Getty RSR fiberglass front fenders or modify the bottom of the existing turbo fronts for the turn signal boxes, etc. (that is what I would like to do - any links to this being done).

I have a couple of questions. It is a AC car and I would like to keep the AC, can the condenser be routed to the rear fenders and out of the ducktail & can the lines be routed through the car as the rocker panels will be off the car? Sorry to ramble on. If there is a post that addresses the 930 to 73RSR backdate any links would be great.

david63 · 11-18-2009, 09:10 PM

I forgot to add that I was going to get the Getty fiberglass hood that allows the hardware on the short hood cars to work.

PAUL RODELO · 11-18-2009, 09:38 PM

David,

I hope I can help you with your project.
Feel free to fire away with any questions.

I would like to ask....
Are you mainly interested in the look of the long hood RSR or the short hood RSR?
Or would you be happy with the IROC look?
What performance are you expecting from the car?
What do you expect the car to weigh?
Will this car be for the track? How often?
Why turbo charged vs. aspirated?

In most cases the budget will determine the answers to the above questions.

Looking forward to helping you with your project.

Paul & Judy

stormmaster · stormmaster's Garage

I am in the process of building an IROC/RSR short hood out of my Carrera. The A/C lines you mention all run under the car and removal of the rockers will not matter. The lines you see on the right side running along the rockers are the oil lines running to the front oil cooler. Those lines can be re-routed....but it is not a fun task. Do a search....you will find the posts. Yes you can delete your rear condensor and get one for the left rear quarter....however....That is one of the hottest areas on the car if you have a cat converter....I just deleted my air....I have a 993 condensor with a fan that fits in the left front fender (964 also). I was going to run it with my front condensor. It is for sale if interested for what I have in it. It is in a cooler part of the car and keeps a little weight off the rear.

david63 · 11-19-2009, 03:52 AM

Paul, I am honored that you would take the time to help out. Your red car was part of my inspiration. I was not in a position to purchase the car (I did contact you about the car and inquired about how difficult it would be to put the AC back on the car). To answer you:

I like the look of the longhood cars (worried that the front fender work to modify the steel for the turn signal housings is difficult to get right). I am torn - I would already have fantastic steel flared fenders to start with OR take those off and put the Getty RSR fenders on that already have the correct turn signal housings?

The performance of the car would be just slightly over stock. Initially I would leave it alone and down the road some small upgrades (better turbo, muffler, clutch etc). Nothing radical (for now anyway

As far as the weight of the car is concerned I will lose the weight from the installation of the bumpers, hood and ducktail. Interior wise I will be replacing the seats, door panels and carpet. I will keep the AC (west texas and the car is a later car with the better AC vents - for what its worth), power windows, sunroof and stereo.

With the comforts that I am leaving in the car it is going to be an occasional track car and most of the time will be a street car.

I would have been happy with a factory wide body car (hard to find and folks get a little upset when you backdate a limited production car) and I like the power options that I have with the turbo car. The main thing I wanted in the car was to not have to install flares, I would already have the great brakes and suspension and wider rims.

As strange as it may sound I really want to keep the AC and the use of the front mounted conderser may be the way to go? I would probably leave the lines running on the outside of the car. In a strange way I think it looks OK.

Thanks for the input.

Elombard · 11-19-2009, 08:05 AM

I think you could fit the stock IC and the mini turbo rear AC condenser under a modified duck?

I would not even consider the FG fenders. I did this, sold off some nice fitting steel turbo fenders to go to glass RSR long hood.

Any fitment issues with adding the light boxes will pale in comparison to the the fit all the way around on the FG fenders. The work involved to put the gas fill in for instance is a huge amount of hours and cost. You have to buy all factory gas fill pieces to fit to the FG fender (at least on mine). And then you start on door line up, hood line up etc. etc.

Of course you can get the FG to look good...$$$$ many hours of work later.

I would think you could get a "perfect" fit with the light boxes for far less money/time.

I think TRE is about to start selling the add on light boxes, he also sells a long hood that fits on a short hood that has great fit from what I hear.

PAUL RODELO · 11-20-2009, 12:33 AM

David,

Dave B. @ TRE has the front bumper and hood set up for backdating short hoods to long hoods.

I agree with Elombard. I would not remove the factory steel 930 fenders.

I also wanted to ask if you have ever driven a 930 for any period of time. Some just don't like the performance and lack of responsiveness when comparing to an early aspirated car. I've owned both and they offer something completely different from each other.

Personally, If I were stuck on the look of the long hood RSR, I would purchase an early LWB hot rod with a 3.0 and 915 trans. I believe Elombard had a gulf blue version of this car at one time. To me, that is the way to go and put your personal touches thereafter.

Here are a list of the pros of aspriated LWB versus 930:

-light weight and nimble.
-responsive (aspirated)
-no turbo lag
-low end torque (3.0)
-can easily run A/C (3.0)
-easy maintenance versus 930.
-no overheating issues versus 930 with A/C

If you still are set on a 930 RSR....no problem.
I can help. Not everyone likes the performance of the 930 on the street.
But, when were talking about the track, they are scary fast.

Lastly, If I had to do it all over again, I would have built a 74 RSR. Of course powered by a 3.0 aspirated twin plug.

Regards,

Paul & Judy

Elombard · 11-20-2009, 02:33 AM

Great advice Paul. I have only messed with an 87 Turbo a little. I always wondered about the performance of that car if it would of received the serious lt wt treatment. I have a hard time modifying a Turbo that is not already messed with, they are just so rare relatively. But it sure is tempting.

david63 · 11-20-2009, 05:27 AM

Thanks for the input. As usual I am undecided. My ultimate goal is to have a streetable mostly and track car once in while. I have owned a couple of 930's in the past (one was modded and it was really fast, the other was stock and the lag was pretty bad). I really like the power of the turbo but would love the simplicity of a 3.0 normally aspirated car (carb or FI)?

The money involved with taking a narrow body car to the widebody look (flares, suspension, brakes) can get the project out of hand pretty quick. I worry that it is hard to find a "nice" early car (rust, wiring, etc). Obviously the key would be to start with a clean, nice car to minimize the expense. I totally agree that the 74 RSR is easier than the 73 RSR on a later car. I know the best thing I can do is to wait for someone that has built a quality RSR to sell their completed project. It is a great way to get a smokin deal (ask me how I know - I sold a wild 914-6 GT a few years back and maybe got 50% of my money. Pretty normal for a project). Still thinking...

PAUL RODELO · 11-20-2009, 07:09 AM

David,

You are correct.
As with your 914-6, someone got a great deal.
The same was true with Elombard's RS hot rod and my 930 RSR.

Also, the cost to install metal flares to a narrow body does not compare to the cost of a 3.3 rebuilt and the required maintenance. Well I am sure you know having owned them in the past.

Regarding power/performance, I like to look from the perspective of power/weight.
The comparison of a euro delivery 930 vs a euro delivery 3.0 in an early LWB 911.

930: 300bhp/3000lbs = 10.0 lbs/1bhp
911: 204bhp/2300lbs = 11.3 lbs/bhp

With the addition of SSI's, and a sport muffler, K&N intake filter, you might gain some of the pending 26 bhp required to make the power to weight ratio's equal to that of a euro delivery 930.

Just imagine, the scenario's above were with full metal bodies.

Food for thought.

Regards,

Paul & Judy