Good point,..sorry. I overlooked the OP's wording.

I thought he said the shop wrench "agreed" to this (i agree) unusual request,..did I miss that one , too?

"real"ly....

Having recently gone through the surgery bit, I can say that a contract signed before knife is drawn leaves you with no recourse should something go wrong, oh, unless you want to pay an attorney minimum 50K to pursue your claim. Back to the engine, I'm a bit intrigued regarding this single main bearing failure. Still would like to see a detailed pic. Has anyone offered to cut open the oil filter or is it new. The engine will tell you more if one has an open mind.

So true but that's the problem. Getting some pictures would be an un biased way of assessing what happened to this engine.

"Getting some pictures would be an un biased way of assessing what happened to this engine."

Oh, jeez, we're still at the point of saying that this technician, who several of us frequent posters know well and respect, could be lying, could have forgotten to put oil in, could have mistakenly put in clunker junker fluid instead of oil... so let's post some photos so all of us amateurs can have our day in the sun.

"I'm not a Porsche mechanic, but I play one on Pelican."

Maybe he ran a low PPM P&Z oil and that's why it blew up.
;)

Oh, I understand it, I just don't like it much.

You get more flies with honey than you get with vinegar. SmileWavy

No, Bob, you are not!

Best,
Tom

was a ppi done before hand
 

I do not remember reading about a PPI being done before the car was purchased. that mayhave pointed to a knock in the engine..

Nobody told that main bearing it was a Porsche main bearing, therefore basic engine analysis doesn't apply. Seeing a picture of the main bearing failure doesn't point a finger at anyone.
I'm too old to go back and ask for a refund for my degree. I"ve never pointed finger at the tech or the owner, just wanted to see what kind of bearing failure occured.

when life gives you lemons, make lemonade

if your wife is mADDD!
 

Hide the golf clubs!!!. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm sure you could sell it here (and now) without any problem. As most of us have learned the hard way, a 911 is never a cheap way to roll.

I wanted to see pictures because they may provide a clue as to what happened.

I wasn't suggesting the tech was lying.
In my first reply to this thread on page 1 post 2, I said "The Tech sounds like a good guy".

We are only getting one side of the story.

I agree with Peter as this is a "technical forum", not a "character assasination forum".
Don't pretend to know everything about Porsches and learn something everyday. So how many out there have seen a single bearing failure without other factors such as foreign material, oil starvation or poor rebuild. Two weeks ago, I split the case of a high mileage 3.0l and the mains could be reused, no signs of scoring, scratching. Can post pics, but don't want to offend Formerly Steve Wilkinson.

Interesting thread. My only comment on the rebuild would be to add my professional 2 cents to the topic of the bid on the rebuild. When someone wants to bring us a transmission for rebuilding (that's what we do, we don't do engines, but the concept is the same), we give them an estimate. We tell the customer that it's a ballpark figure pending teardown of the gearbox and discovery of what is actually wrong. Until that thing is apart, it's only a guess based on experience. The real number isn't established until everything is all laid out on the bench and thoroughly inspected for wear. John's dissatisfaction with the rebuild bid changing from $5000 to $6000 has nothing to do with him being new to Porsches. It has to do with him being naive about automotive repair in general. It's just the way of car repair and it's unreasonable to expect a mechanic to work at a loss because there's more wrong with the engine than was initially thought.

John, since you are clearly still reading this, I am going to tell you that you are getting a screaming deal at $6000. I do suspect that the shop owner feels bad for you and at a bare minimum is eating the labor both to remove and reinstall the engine since you just paid for that once. But that doesn't account for all of the discount. If you don't believe us, buy a copy of Wayne's book on rebuilding a 911 engine. In that book, it clearly tells you that you should expect to pay $6000 in parts and machine shop work if you do it yourself. Based on that figure, the shop is offering to eat ALL of the labor on your rebuild!!! You should be grateful that this shop is offering to take such good care of you. I'm sorry, but you sound like a spoiled brat who is upset because his toy broke. If this car is really more than you can afford, sell it off and chock it up to a lesson learned. If you want to own a 911, there's a great group of people here who will help to educate you and embrace you as one of their own if you just take that giant chip off your shoulder for a minute and become teachable. Hell, you could buy a copy of Wayne's book, trailer the car home and rebuild the engine yourself over the next year. But you really need to stop whining about how this shop is treating you wrong. They've done nothing but offer you the best of service from what I can see.

And that does leave me with one final comment. I wouldn't have removed the name of the shop from the posts. I think a thread like this shows that there are some real stand up independents in our midst. I don't think this thread is bad press for the shop. I think it speaks to what sort of people are out there who are willing to try and help out a P-car owner in a bad situation at the expense of good business sense. Business sense suggests just kicking John out of the shop and getting on to the next job. But that's not what they've done. They've offered to work with him and help him out. That's being a member of the P-car community and not just making it about the money. These are the kind of people that I personally and professionally want to do business with. It's those kinds of shops that I want selling and installing my parts because there's more to this business than making money. There's people and passion behind these cars and time and time again I've seen that there is a community of people here, and for that I am thankful. John, you have a choice in front of you. You can choose to become one of us, or you can choose to walk away.

My rebuild was 15k and I was happy with the price

Then limit your hobby to vintage six cylinder Chevrolets. They're lovable, and they're much cheaper to fix. Porsches, as you may have heard, are expensive cars.

The real problem, here, is you're in over your head with this car. Stop blaming the tech.

Alternative to the chevy would be a 912, then if it needed and engine rebuild it would only cost around 8 to 10 K. I share your pain regarding spending the money. Time to cut your losses and move on or you can still break even. Good luck.

True.

For $6k I'd JUMP at the rebuild. John got a smoking deal on this car, and it's time he manned up and either has this shop - which now looks very upright due to John's rabid posting style and obvious paranoia - do the work, or pays someone down the road to do it.

Otherwise, John, STFU, take your car back and do the work yourself. Old Porsches cost money but are classics. In fact, even with a $6k investment today, that's money you'll get back tomorrow.

The reality is that this car or any other early Porsche is not for you. But your Lexus is PERFECT for you (it has an "idiot light", after all). Now run along and go play with your friends over at the Lexus forums.

Good bye. SmileWavy

---

Tom '75 targa

I think he should request a bag of cookies from the shop:

A Visit to the Shop

This is a good forum, maybe the best. I'd keep and fix the Porsche just to stay connected to it. But that's me. John, don't take the motor to anyone that promises to fix it for less. My guess is that you could easily double the 6K price.
Good luck with whatever you decide

i continue to believe this was the entire reason for the initial post. lots of views on a car for sale.

George - many shops will not even do PPIs anymore for fear of being "liable" if they give a positive finding on a car and it turns out to be a dog. There's a horror story going around about a Ferrari that had a PPI done and the shop "missed something". In an "up" market, the car would simply have been sold on, but given current market conditions, the owner gets his attorney involved and pretty soon the legal bills add up to more than the car is worth!

Great read.

Pre-purchase Ferrari Inspection Becomes $182k lawsuit

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/img/c...tr-lowchdj.jpg

Three owners and many thousands of miles earlier, the car had probably thrown a rod. The San Francisco shop didn’t see the need to mention this

Pre-purchase Ferrari Inspection Becomes $182k lawsuit | Sheehan Speaks | Sports Car Market

George - many shops will not even do PPIs anymore for fear of being "liable" if they give a positive finding on a car and it turns out to be a dog. There's a horror story going around about a Ferrari that had a PPI done and the shop "missed something". In an "up" market, the car would simply have been sold on, but given current market conditions, the owner gets his attorney involved and pretty soon the legal bills add up to more than the car is worth!

Great read.

Pre-purchase Ferrari Inspection Becomes $182k lawsuit

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/img/c...tr-lowchdj.jpg

Three owners and many thousands of miles earlier, the car had probably thrown a rod. The San Francisco shop didn’t see the need to mention this

Pre-purchase Ferrari Inspection Becomes $182k lawsuit | Sheehan Speaks | Sports Car Market

Just read this story... OMG what a mess!

I can not believe all this erupted because of a one inch "patch" on the engine.
A thrown rod? Probably but it could have been anything... Even something done at the factory.
After all the car was built in the late 60s or early 70s.

There is just no way to know for sure....

Thanks for posting. This underlines the importance of effective communication with clients and mechanics.

would NEVER sue for a bad PPI. lesson learned, move on.

had a well known and respected race shop do my ppi and while they did catch front pan rust they diagnosed the popping/spitting webers as dirty idle jets. turns out the throttle shafts were looser than a jersey girl on spring break. how does an experienced race shop miss that?

if i ever buy another ppi worthy car i will be sure to have a very specific list of things to be looked at and written results. and i will be present. if i can't come back in the shop and watch/help then i'm not doing the ppi with you. happy to sign a release of liability in trade for this.

oh and it will be a $400 or so ppi. these $150 deals just aren't thorough enough given the potential costs associated with old Porsches.

my $450 ppi was my thrump card to lower the asking price $3K so i guess i got a good ppi/deal. .. but two specific items i asked the tech to look at, pass door central lock not locking and passenger power seat not working fore and aft.. he said they were both motor/servo related and it turns out it was a linkage for the lock and just a dirty contacts for the seat.. both done for less than $2. that part cost me the extra $50 in the ppi.

so you guys are expecting diagnostic services during a PPI? Perhaps they should be PPI&DSs?

no he asked me if i had found any issues while i had the car overnight and i just mentioned the two items to him. i didn't ask him to do anything as it was one of my buying points i had noted. he went ahead and tried to diagnose the issue, then charge me .4 hours. the work was already done, what could i do plus i wanted to get the car worked on by them in the future.

And that does leave me with one final comment. I wouldn't have removed the name of the shop from the posts. I think a thread like this shows that there are some real stand up independents in our midst. I don't think this thread is bad press for the shop. I think it speaks to what sort of people are out there who are willing to try and help out a P-car owner in a bad situation at the expense of good business sense. Business sense suggests just kicking John out of the shop and getting on to the next job. But that's not what they've done. They've offered to work with him and help him out. That's being a member of the P-car community and not just making it about the money. These are the kind of people that I personally and professionally want to do business with. It's those kinds of shops that I want selling and installing my parts because there's more to this business than making money. There's people and passion behind these cars and time and time again I've seen that there is a community of people here, and for that I am thankful. John, you have a choice in front of you. You can choose to become one of us, or you can choose to walk away

+1
Just got done reading this mess! If I have the math correct this guy could have a pretty cool 911 with a rebuilt engine by a VERY reputable shop, (endorsed by some respected Pelicans)
for around 15K, all in?
Some just don't get it! They are all 20k cars!
Good to hear about the good shops out there who seemed to want to do the right thing. If I lived near this shop they would certainly be on my short list!

Don't want to high jack the thread, but, Berettafan, where do Jersey girls go for Spring Break? Thanks.

Anybody who wants to seriously know the name of the shop for a good reason, other than blatant curiosity, e-mail me at stephwilkinson@verizon.net

Or go to post 37 of this thread and google;)

Looks like a stellar operation.

I don't know how shops today stand it. Whether it's some moron claiming the shop blew their motor or customers coming in and telling them "how can it be that much, I saw on Pelican all you need to do..." or better yet, "that's not how this guy did it on Pelican..." they are in a no-win situation with anyone but the old school customer that just wants their car fixed and trusts the shop through a relationship built over years.*


sure looks like a nice place.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1259984644.jpg











except for Motormeister of course.

Attention shop owners, make sure you put release and waiver language in the PPI Also exclude attorneys' fees provisions in the PPI contract/invoice. There are too many weasels with money who do not know where to put a spark plug. There are too many desperate lawyers out there that will run up outrageous fees only to make the shop pay when the weasel car owner wins.

If it doesn't sell, you can always raise the price!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/512890-1973-porsche-911t-half.html

"only problem is car needs motor/motor will not turn/ only little surface rust/19,500$$$ takes in now"

And then he woke up.......

What is wrong with that hood anyhow? It always appears to be unlatched.

What is "/permatunigion/"?

Price is going up.

Maybe potential buyers will stumble upon this post where he states what he paid for the car and what he had put into it!:D
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/512855-1973-porsche-911t-tech-blew-motor-i-want-know-how-i-tell-if-he-fault.html#post5029562