1973 porsche 911t/tech blew motor and i want to know how i tell if he was at fault
 

bought a Porsche 911 t/removed tank and had it boiled and sealed/then bought to garage since i couldn't rebuild the carbs but before he did it had motor compression checked which was fine/garage rebuilt carbs and car ran fine for over an hour/took car for ride and heard noise in transmission which tech then dropped entire engine with trans and found that noise was just loose nut on reverse that loosened/while then tech replaced rear seal on engine and told me i needed a new clutch which i went for/tech puts everything back together and i tell him i will be picking up/he says i want to tune for perfection and to call him following day/next day out of the blue he calls me in the morning and says motor just seized while running outside before he took for another test ride!!!tech has had car for over 6 months and i think he caused the motor to seize//how do i know if it was his fault?? i have an that somebody forgot to take out plug of hose when reinstalling motor of oil supply!! tech says he feels bad and wants to rebuild motor for 5 grand[25 hours labour and appr 2500 parts ]!! what should i do!!!new to Porsche ownership!!

The tech sounds like a good guy.

Sometimes these thing happen and there's not much you can do to prove anything was done incorrectly. He is human after all.

What to do? That's a hard one. Go and talk to him face to face. Get the car fixed and learn something from the experience.

why exactly did it seize? was it worn out to begin with and he was just unlucky enough to be the one driving it when it went south, or did he not put oil in it? some things are just coincidence, nobody's fault.

i would GO look at it and figure out what is going on......ASAP....:eek:

One of the reasons shops sometimes keep a car a long time has nothing to do with incompetence, and I've had my '83 SC sit in the shop--or outside it--for months at a time to get some relatively minor work done. (I try to make sure it's wintertime, not the middle of the summer.) Independent shops typically have lots of customers with daily drivers, whether they're 911s or not, and they know when a customer's car is a toy and when it's something he needs in order to get to work.

My car is a toy, and so, I suspect, is yours. A tech will work on drivers to get them out the door and back into service and will perforce wait for a convenient time to tear into a toy.

You have "over $3,000" in the car for the work you listed? Sounds like a bargain.

Could I suggest that you make friends with the spacebar and lose the slashes and screamers (otherwise known as exclamation points)? They make your posts so hard to read and interpret that I've stopped bothering.

From the few pictures you posted it's hard to tell the value of your car but from what I see, if there are no rust issues, you definitely have a car worth your potential new outlay.

I agree with the others, failure of an old, unknown engine can happen to anyone. It sounds like your tech is honest and open and reasonable in his charges. Talk to him, face to face as others have said. Learn of the potential causes of engine seizures. Lack of oil is certainly high on the list but that doesn't mean there was no oil in the engine--it's the circulation and pressure that matter. Maybe you can get a written commitment to a specific rebuild price that would make you feel better, along with the mileage warranty. Putting $5K into a quality rebuild is very reasonable, IMO, and you would still not be upside down on your "investment" if the car is truly as nice as it looks.

One point to consider. If the 2.4 is not original to the car, that may be a factor in considering an engine swap as there is a greater value in matching # cars. Even if it is a matching # engine, you may wish to invest in a swap and keep the original for later rebuild. Regardless, the engine should remain with the car, if original, to maintain value.

Nice looking car!

I spent roughly $6k rebuilding mine (I did the labor). It quickly escalated to $10k when I got SSIs, new muffler, fuel injectors, etc etc.

You have the potential to get a full rebuild for $5k plus a 1 year warranty by a pro. Great deal! On top of that you already addressed freshening up the fuel system. At the end of the day you will have a brand new motor / brand new system ... you can drive worry free for years!

well, you won't get a first cabin rebuild for $5K, you know that? rings, bearings and a valve grind maybe. that's on a running, undamaged engine. yours is seized, which may well have damaged crank and/or case, of more. best to do the teardown before doing the estimate.

With all due respect to everyone here, let me be the voice of dissent and say that in my opinion, there is no reason that a motor should seize after a qualified talented independent Porsche mechanic has just completed any major service/rebuild/whatever on that engine. An engine that seizes before it arrives at the mechanic's is one thing. An engine that seizes 5,000 miles after a rebuild? Another. But the guy worked on it for 7 months and it's in his possession when this happens? Oh no. It's his fault for killing the patient and now he needs to make this right. Would I pay him a dime for his work up to this point? Nope. I'd pay for the one rebuild I asked for originally, even if it takes this guy two times to do it. I agree that a very long face-to-face conversation needs to take place when you two create a game plan to fix this mess. All the next steps need to be in writing, with guaranteed prices, with both your approval signatures clearly visible. Sorry to hear about your nightmare. Good luck. SmileWavy

x2 wanted to make sure everything is perfect? and seizes it ????

Why did the car sit for 3 years? Knowing this might shed a lot of light on the situation.

he just bought the car. you dont know what or how the PO did or treated the car. perhaps the PO new something was wrong and unloaded it. at 5k it sounds like it may be the PO's loss.

beautifull car. if it is not a rust basket case, it should go for $25k+ easily, if all original and in good shape 30-40k. the long hoods are getting rare, and an orginal one is worth even more. 5k for that car with a bad motor was a deal.
do the motor right, if you decide to sell, it will be worth it.

it looks like a pretty big and nice porsche shop from the pic so that is encouraging.
you can ask to be there for the tear down or even ask if you can do it at the shop. that is a good way to learn about the motors.

Point well taken, but doesn't fit this scenario, IMO.

There is no indication of any rebuild work being done on this engine, either by the PO or the current mechanic in question. There is not even any indication of internal work being done. The condition of the engine was determined by compression check and the seven month possession is not indicative of work being done either--a worn engine is a worn engine, regardless of how long it sits in a particular garage or its ancillary components are tinkered with.

The fact the engine failed on his watch may or may not be relevant--only a complete tear down and inspection will determine that, and this should be the first step, after a clear understanding between the two parties is reached.

Well looks like it is for sale.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/512890-1973-porsche-911t-half.html

what's wrong with this picture....


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1259086429.jpg

bizarre

He should probably edit this post if he's asking $18K with a seized engine.

As, I novice I'll chime in just the same. Jury still out until the engine is inspected. No oil, no pressure should result in main bearing failure, low oil pressure, restrictions usually take a rod bearing. I bought my 72 S some time ago with a seized motor, ended up being a chain ramp end lodged in the intermediate shaft gear. The car looks to have had MFI, so should be an earlier 73 or ?
Stay calm. If you know anything about engines, be there when it comes down, if you don't know anything find a friend that does. Good luck, the car looks worthwhile to invest the extra money in it. Enjoy and have a Happy Thanksgiving.

There might be more to this story than meets the eye

for my money this thread was started as a lure to get some poor guy to think the OP is a sucker and can be had.

buyer beware imo.

I swear this BB gets stranger every day.

hey, i could certainly be wrong and if i am i do apologize...but my gut isn't sitting well with this one.

surely looks like a beautiful car and is worth at least looking at for the money. but still....

I don't see what's wrong with the picture, but I think that this car is worth over $5,000 WITH the blown motor. I suspect that it was priced low, because the engine was already toast. If so, then the tech is simply not accountable.

It is bizzare b/c you asked advice about your situation on this forum this morning ... then you go post a for sale ad at noon.

Why would post a for sale ad before having a long talk with your technician?

The car is beautiful and you only paid $5k for it. Why wasn't it running for 3 years? How did you get it so cheap? Was something wrong with it before you bought it?

Not to mention that you paid $5k ... put roughly $5k into it ... and you are asking $18k for it with a seized engine. Bizarre for sure.

I am not trying to be mean spirited. I just think it would be wise to slow down the decision making and take your time to process all of the information. Again, you have a stunning vehicle. I would be inclined to try and have it rebuilt and maybe negotiate on the rate even further.

Not to say that this is what happened ... but something could have found its way into the engine when the previous owner had the car.

The car could run like a kitten until that "something" got caught up where it shouldn't.

Just saying. I'd ask the tech to determine the cause pro bono - and you should be there during the tear down.

Again ... why was the car only $5k? Can you contact the previous owner and share this info with him/her?

Look how happy your kid is in that photo! You can't sell that machine!

Fix the matching #s engine, and you can ask much more than you have into it. If the body is as good as it looks in the pictures and the engine is original you can make a huge profit or continue to own it and enjoy.

I agree with MCA as above, be patient and negotiate, find out the true extent of the damage to the engine and then make a determination.

That car appears to be well sorted and not a basket case. Even if you got it cheap because the PO thought the engine was going bad, you still stole it for 5k.

Can you sense the vultures circling overhead? :eek:

Exactly !!!

anyone looking to purchase this car should have a PPI done. the shop it is at is very reputable .

LOL wut?

Jeff,

Is the shop located close to you in New York? Can you post the shops information?

Thanks, Shane

Ask every question you may have while the tech is tearing into the engine, no matter how dumb it may seem. Ask every question you have that would back your idea that lack of oil may be the cause.
Record on paper all questions and answers--as best you can.
Report to the forum any and all questions, answers, and comments from the tech as to what he is finding.
People here will offer input as to the quality of the information you get and new questions to ask.

Something very odd with this one........

Jeff,

Is the shop located close to you in New York? Can you post the shops information?




I could but I will leave that to the owner's discretion

I hope your 1 key breaks off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this was the idea.

imo.

could be wrong.

hope i am.

So johnm has gone "bye bye." Where do we find these one-posters?

I'll be at the shop first thing tomorrow morning, just to make sure they know what's going down.

What happened? Can't leave us hanging like this!

Wasn't that car one of the 5 or 6 cars in a field!!!!!
:D

Took my daughter's new Lexus into the dealer early one morning for the 10k service...and they called me back late that afternoon to tell me that the engine had self destructed. Matter-of-factly asked if we had been having problems with the engine. When I went over to the dealer and asked if they had forgotten to put oil back in after the oil change...the guilt was all over their face, but they would not admit it.