1973 porsche 911t/tech blew motor and i want to know how i tell if he was at fault

[dshepp806]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

shoulda' used a question mark there, huh? ("Tech blew motor?").

Wrong. Go back at look at the original thread title.

"As a small businessman who occasionally does this kind of goodwill (and that's what I'd call what this shop is offering), I know that it gets done when I have time, early in the day or late in the evening or when I have a minute here and there. But not when there's other billable work to be done."

And Wavey is exactly right, I'm amused by the thought that a shop owner who has probably 10 cars actively being worked on and another 30 outside waiting for lift space, three employees and an office to manage, should have the luxury of waiting around for some old-911 owner to show up so he can run a teardown class. Get real.

Good point,..sorry. I overlooked the OP's wording.

I thought he said the shop wrench "agreed" to this (i agree) unusual request,..did I miss that one , too?

"real"ly....

[Rusty 356]

Having recently gone through the surgery bit, I can say that a contract signed before knife is drawn leaves you with no recourse should something go wrong, oh, unless you want to pay an attorney minimum 50K to pursue your claim. Back to the engine, I'm a bit intrigued regarding this single main bearing failure. Still would like to see a detailed pic. Has anyone offered to cut open the oil filter or is it new. The engine will tell you more if one has an open mind.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Rusty 356

.... The engine will tell you more if one has an open mind.

So true but that's the problem. Getting some pictures would be an un biased way of assessing what happened to this engine.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

"Getting some pictures would be an un biased way of assessing what happened to this engine."

Oh, jeez, we're still at the point of saying that this technician, who several of us frequent posters know well and respect, could be lying, could have forgotten to put oil in, could have mistakenly put in clunker junker fluid instead of oil... so let's post some photos so all of us amateurs can have our day in the sun.

"I'm not a Porsche mechanic, but I play one on Pelican."

[GaryR]

Maybe he ran a low PPM P&Z oil and that's why it blew up.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Am I the only one having a hard time with this sentence?????

Oh, I understand it, I just don't like it much.

You get more flies with honey than you get with vinegar.

[mossguy]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Am I the only one having a hard time with this sentence?????

No, Bob, you are not!

Best,
Tom

[47silver]

I do not remember reading about a PPI being done before the car was purchased. that mayhave pointed to a knock in the engine..

[Rusty 356]

Nobody told that main bearing it was a Porsche main bearing, therefore basic engine analysis doesn't apply. Seeing a picture of the main bearing failure doesn't point a finger at anyone.
I'm too old to go back and ask for a refund for my degree. I"ve never pointed finger at the tech or the owner, just wanted to see what kind of bearing failure occured.

[paulgtr]

when life gives you lemons, make lemonade

[Alan Goettel]

Hide the golf clubs!!!. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm sure you could sell it here (and now) without any problem. As most of us have learned the hard way, a 911 is never a cheap way to roll.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

"Getting some pictures would be an un biased way of assessing what happened to this engine."

Oh, jeez, we're still at the point of saying that this technician, who several of us frequent posters know well and respect, could be lying, could have forgotten to put oil in, could have mistakenly put in clunker junker fluid instead of oil... so let's post some photos so all of us amateurs can have our day in the sun.

"I'm not a Porsche mechanic, but I play one on Pelican."

I wanted to see pictures because they may provide a clue as to what happened.

I wasn't suggesting the tech was lying.
In my first reply to this thread on page 1 post 2, I said "The Tech sounds like a good guy".

We are only getting one side of the story.

[Rusty 356]

I agree with Peter as this is a "technical forum", not a "character assasination forum".
Don't pretend to know everything about Porsches and learn something everyday. So how many out there have seen a single bearing failure without other factors such as foreign material, oil starvation or poor rebuild. Two weeks ago, I split the case of a high mileage 3.0l and the mains could be reused, no signs of scoring, scratching. Can post pics, but don't want to offend Formerly Steve Wilkinson.

[Matt Monson]

Interesting thread. My only comment on the rebuild would be to add my professional 2 cents to the topic of the bid on the rebuild. When someone wants to bring us a transmission for rebuilding (that's what we do, we don't do engines, but the concept is the same), we give them an estimate. We tell the customer that it's a ballpark figure pending teardown of the gearbox and discovery of what is actually wrong. Until that thing is apart, it's only a guess based on experience. The real number isn't established until everything is all laid out on the bench and thoroughly inspected for wear. John's dissatisfaction with the rebuild bid changing from $5000 to $6000 has nothing to do with him being new to Porsches. It has to do with him being naive about automotive repair in general. It's just the way of car repair and it's unreasonable to expect a mechanic to work at a loss because there's more wrong with the engine than was initially thought.

John, since you are clearly still reading this, I am going to tell you that you are getting a screaming deal at $6000. I do suspect that the shop owner feels bad for you and at a bare minimum is eating the labor both to remove and reinstall the engine since you just paid for that once. But that doesn't account for all of the discount. If you don't believe us, buy a copy of Wayne's book on rebuilding a 911 engine. In that book, it clearly tells you that you should expect to pay $6000 in parts and machine shop work if you do it yourself. Based on that figure, the shop is offering to eat ALL of the labor on your rebuild!!! You should be grateful that this shop is offering to take such good care of you. I'm sorry, but you sound like a spoiled brat who is upset because his toy broke. If this car is really more than you can afford, sell it off and chock it up to a lesson learned. If you want to own a 911, there's a great group of people here who will help to educate you and embrace you as one of their own if you just take that giant chip off your shoulder for a minute and become teachable. Hell, you could buy a copy of Wayne's book, trailer the car home and rebuild the engine yourself over the next year. But you really need to stop whining about how this shop is treating you wrong. They've done nothing but offer you the best of service from what I can see.

And that does leave me with one final comment. I wouldn't have removed the name of the shop from the posts. I think a thread like this shows that there are some real stand up independents in our midst. I don't think this thread is bad press for the shop. I think it speaks to what sort of people are out there who are willing to try and help out a P-car owner in a bad situation at the expense of good business sense. Business sense suggests just kicking John out of the shop and getting on to the next job. But that's not what they've done. They've offered to work with him and help him out. That's being a member of the P-car community and not just making it about the money. These are the kind of people that I personally and professionally want to do business with. It's those kinds of shops that I want selling and installing my parts because there's more to this business than making money. There's people and passion behind these cars and time and time again I've seen that there is a community of people here, and for that I am thankful. John, you have a choice in front of you. You can choose to become one of us, or you can choose to walk away.

[sfoster13]

My rebuild was 15k and I was happy with the price

[Tom F2]

Originally Posted by johnm1469

I've really tried working with him but i think I'm past the point of no return. 6 k way too much for me.

Then limit your hobby to vintage six cylinder Chevrolets. They're lovable, and they're much cheaper to fix. Porsches, as you may have heard, are expensive cars.

The real problem, here, is you're in over your head with this car. Stop blaming the tech.

[Rusty 356]

Alternative to the chevy would be a 912, then if it needed and engine rebuild it would only cost around 8 to 10 K. I share your pain regarding spending the money. Time to cut your losses and move on or you can still break even. Good luck.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I don't think this thread is bad press for the shop. I think it speaks to what sort of people are out there who are willing to try and help out a P-car owner in a bad situation at the expense of good business sense. Business sense suggests just kicking John out of the shop and getting on to the next job. But that's not what they've done. They've offered to work with him and help him out. That's being a member of the P-car community and not just making it about the money. These are the kind of people that I personally and professionally want to do business with. It's those kinds of shops that I want selling and installing my parts because there's more to this business than making money. There's people and passion behind these cars and time and time again I've seen that there is a community of people here, and for that I am thankful. John, you have a choice in front of you. You can choose to become one of us, or you can choose to walk away.

True.

For $6k I'd JUMP at the rebuild. John got a smoking deal on this car, and it's time he manned up and either has this shop - which now looks very upright due to John's rabid posting style and obvious paranoia - do the work, or pays someone down the road to do it.

Otherwise, John, STFU, take your car back and do the work yourself. Old Porsches cost money but are classics. In fact, even with a $6k investment today, that's money you'll get back tomorrow.

The reality is that this car or any other early Porsche is not for you. But your Lexus is PERFECT for you (it has an "idiot light", after all). Now run along and go play with your friends over at the Lexus forums.

Good bye.

---

Tom '75 targa

[RWebb]

I think he should request a bag of cookies from the shop:

A Visit to the Shop

[Rusty 356]

This is a good forum, maybe the best. I'd keep and fix the Porsche just to stay connected to it. But that's me. John, don't take the motor to anyone that promises to fix it for less. My guess is that you could easily double the 6K price.
Good luck with whatever you decide