1973 porsche 911t/tech blew motor and i want to know how i tell if he was at fault

[MattKellett]

Originally Posted by johnm1469

I've really tried working with him but i think I'm past the point of no return. 6 k way too much for me. first he says 5k now 6k and we did not mention his disregard of not letting me be present on rest of breakdown and i made that real clear. this guy is tells me one thing and then tells me another thing!! i think he does want to get me going.obviously no one on board can answer the question as if can a worn bearing make an engine seize??? I'm at the end of my rope and calm about it!! my wife is about to kill me with this thing and i think the best thing for me is to box it up and bring her home!! time for a vacation after this one with this tech!! it's been a nightmare!!maybe you guys are used to this but not me!!!when somebody tells me something i expect them to keep there words!!!I'm waiting for his final estimate as we speak. if it's above 5k she's coming home!! i will play with it by myself!! i will never buy a Porsche again!!! lesson learned. all have a great day!! at least i will be able to look at her in the garage.

John - Answer to your question about a worn bearing - YES!

The exact same thing happened to my '87 Carrera with no warning. Also a shop or mechanic will give you a ballpark quote for fixing your engine, I doubt there's anyone who will repair your engine for a fixed price before a thorough tear down and inspection.

The average cost for a full rebuild is in the region of $10 k- $12 k with rebuilt heads , long block and crankshaft repair machine work.

[constructor]

Some people should stick to leasing new cars. It would be easier for everybody.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

The technician involved yesterday said to me, "Awhile ago on Rennlist, somebody asked the forum's opinion of my shop, and pretty quickly four respected Rennlisters posted very positive opinions of me. Couple days later, the thread was on something like page 10 and nobody ever saw it again. But this Pelican thing has 4,500 views and won't go away."

Other than the fact that 90 percent of the posters here have opined that only an idiot who knows little about cars would think "tech blew motor," as the thread's slanderous title says, Mr. Exclamation Point could really be doing damage to a hard-earned reputation. Fortunately, when people like John Walker are telling him to sit down and shut up, that won't happen.

My own stupid mistake--what was I thinking?--was naming the shop in one post. Sorry I ever did, but I finally at least had the sense to delete that post.

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by johnm1469

i made it clear to to tech that i wanted to be present in breaking down engine.

Perhaps you didn't make it clear, if you talk like you type, the shop may have had difficulty understanding.

[Dueller]

In defense of the OP, he did not come out and ID the tech/shop. I understand his initial concern/reaction in his old 911 naivete but in the cold, hard light of day an engine failures like this comes with the territory. Barring an act of gross negligence not evidenced by the OP's own account of the tech's professional treatment of him/his car up to the catastrophe I don't see how a rational person could conclude it was the shop's error.

Perhaps the tech's willingness to discount the cost of needed repairs was somehow construed as an admission of guilt. Which proves the axiom "No good deed goes unpunished."

Hopefully the OP has gained some insight. The tech seems to have taken the high road.

[jjrowe]

Fortunately it doesn't seem like anyone's opinion of the aforementioned shop has soured. My dad owned a shop so I have seen many customers like this. They feel that everyone is out to get and cheat them. I'm surprised the shop offered to help him out, getting further involved with a distrustful customer will never turn him around nor will he appreciate the gesture.

[Rusty 356]

OKay, I'm in for 10K. Let me know when you want to consumate the deal. If you stay in it (Porsche ownership), you'll find that there are a lot of Porsche owners that brag about what they had to spend to get their cars fixed. Enjoy life and quit whining about a Porsche that broke.
Later, my offer stands,

[johnm1469]

As i said before you ask a simple question and the loose nuts come out!!! wow!!! nobody ever said the shop was at fault for the motor. all i did was ask a question. i remember a thing i did back in school !! one person told a story to another and then passed it on.when the 20 person got the story it was all screwed up. some did try but other so bored with there time like Steve just went off the handle. for the ones who tried to help me understand the motor being seized thanks. when all is done i will post the outcome.

[Rusty 356]

We are a passionate group. And a little off center too as you have discovered. Pics of the failed bearing please.

[RWebb]

Steve and other posters can always go back and delete or edit out the ID for the shop in their own posts. Numerous people have said the shop is excellent, so I can only assume [1] that is true, and [2] they would not let an inexperience mechanic work on the motor or talk to the owner w/o supervision.

So, it seems we have an owner with mostly unrealistic expectations.

A change from $5k to $6k as one goes thru a motor is trivial. Maybe more common if this was a new car, but a fixed bid would seem unusual even then.

Like I said, this guy wants to rebuild it himself - it will be very educational.

And I am taking the most charitable viewpoint possible.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

"tech blew motor..."

Right. Nobody ever said the shop was at fault. How could I be so stupid?

[john walker's workshop]

yeah, i thought that was the thread title. you can't go back and edit titles.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

The major reason I ever bought a quarter-century-old 911 in the first place--which changed my life in a variety of wonderful ways--was that I knew this shop was five miles away, pretty much in the middle of nowhere, Porsche-wise, and I knew the person who ran it. So it's not that I'm a nut case when I unload on Mr. Exclamation Point, it's just that I resent (yeah, unfair, I know) some outsider coming in and casting aspersions upon it.

Gets my undies in a bunch, frankly.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson

Gets my undies in a bunch, frankly.

That's becoming apparent. And you aren't alone. I think there's a lot of wedgie action in general from this thread.

[dshepp806]

shoulda' used a question mark there, huh? ("Tech blew motor?").

Geeze,..what a diatribe.....money's tight,..and will bring out the worst in all of us (logic aside). It's an expensive hobby, this addiction of ours. You have to pay to play...simple. Relationship's with P-wrenches are of PARAMOUNT importance, as quality of work bares high expectations. You usualy get what you pay for, in the end. Reputations mean EVERYTHING....and many a person has diligently worked to earn that "reputation".......they deserve respect.

On the other hand, I simply don't understand a shop overlooking a client's request to be there while the teardown was being conducted,...and to do otherwise is "out of the box". It's such a simple request, no? Maybe a communication error? (On the specifics?) I dunno'.

Patience, my friend,..and the help and inspiration offered by the guys within this "Pelican University"...sure,..some will be a bit cold with comments,..others will be on your side should you decide to take this on yourself. Maybe there's a chance to "heal" this relation with the wrench.......we all frik up,...nobody's perfect,.....sometimes, just laying it on the line will straighten things up....(as a previous poster suggested.....).

My car has aggravated the living sheeit out of me, at times...convinced that I should make a decision to go with reliability or something (seemingly) unreliable (i.e., the 911)...working so hard to keep things up to par,..learning so much from this group,..ultimately arriving at a place where knowledge has grown about the car's maintenance,...I indulge the mechanics more and more...I swear it's like a female relationship,..ups and downs...in the end,..when she's running right,...I can't think of many experiences in my life right now that equal "those weekend drives"...truly medicinal.

I wish you the best with your trials.....

[Wavey]

Originally Posted by dshepp806

On the other hand, I simply don't understand a shop overlooking a client's request to be there while the teardown was being conducted,...and to do otherwise is "out of the box". It's such a simple request, no? Maybe a communication error? (On the specifics?) I dunno'.

As a small businessman who occasionally does this kind of goodwill (and that's what I'd call what this shop is offering), I know that it gets done when I have time, early in the day or late in the evening or when I have a minute here and there. But not when there's other billable work to be done. I'd guess that the shop saw a few minutes to get into this during what would have otherwise been unproductive time. If I'm doing work at a discounted rate, or for free, and not because of my screwup, I don't feel the need to meet other requirements, regardless of what the customer requests. Just because John requested to be there doesn't mean the shop agreed. And if John doesn't trust them he should pull the car out of there. JMHO.

[sc_rufctr]

"1973 porsche 911t/tech blew motor and i want to know how i tell if he was at fault"

To answer your question....

You can't "tell" it was the techs fault by what's damaged in the engine.
There's just now way to know for sure what happened.

Maybe the engine was starved for oil because the tech forgot to put any in. Possible but not probable.

More likely the engine was worn out and the previous owner knew this and that's why he sold the car so cheap to you.

Good luck with the outcome. I hope you choose to repair/keep the car and enjoy it.

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by johnm1469

. some did try but other so bored with there time like Steve just went off the handle..

Am I the only one having a hard time with this sentence?????

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

shoulda' used a question mark there, huh? ("Tech blew motor?").

Wrong. Go back at look at the original thread title.

"As a small businessman who occasionally does this kind of goodwill (and that's what I'd call what this shop is offering), I know that it gets done when I have time, early in the day or late in the evening or when I have a minute here and there. But not when there's other billable work to be done."

And Wavey is exactly right, I'm amused by the thought that a shop owner who has probably 10 cars actively being worked on and another 30 outside waiting for lift space, three employees and an office to manage, should have the luxury of waiting around for some old-911 owner to show up so he can run a teardown class. Get real.

[RWebb]

the problem is that a contract was established -- the shop could have said what formerSteve posted, but apparently they did not
- so other shop owners should pay attention...

a written work order is a contract -- if concerned put something in there as to how it is the only contract and any mods must be in writing

a shop _could_ do what a Vet or an MD does - set up an appt. for the owner to be there

if it was me, I'd have refused the work, but they didn't...