Is this worth complaining to Yokohama?

[911pcars]

About 250 miles from home on the return trip from Monterey last week. At about 80 mph, the LR tire kinda disintegrates. The back end wobbles a bit, then I ease off the gas and pull off onto the shoulder. Here are some pics.





Luckily no wheel damage, but some beating of the fender lip area from the tire. The sidewall beads (inside and outside) remain firmly locked onto the wheel, probably saving the 16" Fuchs from becoming 15s.

I'm not sure why this happened. Anyone here into tire forensics? Yoko AVS Sport, 245/45-16. The valve stem is intact. I checked air pressure on the way to the event (38 psi). Tread is good. No nails or other penetration. Tire looked good before the trip home. There's a tire plug, but no where near the damaged area which is basically the entire circumference, both sides. In fact the entire carcass except for each sidewall was severed. This could have been caused by rolling deflated for a few hundred feet.

The manufacturing date code shows the tire to be on the older side (last pic shows the last digits, V3000). From my extrapolation, the tire was made on Oct. of 2000. That's about 9 years old.

Is this "normal" tire failure after a tire matures or is something else going on? A friend suggested I contact Yokohama's corporate office and see if they can assist. What does the collective experience here think I should do?

Current consumer suggestion is to replace tires every two years. That's not likely to happen with a limited mile vehicle with expensive tires, especially with NLA AVS Sports.

thanks,
Sherwood

[WPOZZZ]

I'm skeptical about running tires that old. You better check all your other tires for dry rot.

[sc_rufctr]

If your car is stored correctly (protected from UV Light) your tyres should be good for 5 Years...

2 Years sounds a bit ridiculous... I'm guessing a large percentage of tyres on the roads today are more than two years old.
Your tyres at 9 years is kinda stretching it but the total failure has me concerned there wasn't another problem.

It's certainly worth contacting Yokohama... You never know what response you may get.

[4sd911]

My 911 Yokohama's are 10 years old, and on a 912 I have 12 year old Pirelli's, I'd bet the tire deflated at speed. Any evidence of punctures.

Edit: the Yokohama's are not 10 years but 5, thinking of a different tire. And the Pirelli's are old but they have tubs in them.

[RWebb]

Sherwood, I would contact them and ask what happened...

[Brando]

I've seen that happen to some Falken Azenis way back in the day. What was the culprit then? They weren't designed to be run-flat tires...

[911pcars]

No evidence of punctures that I can observe other than the massive openings on each side of the tire.

Here's something, perhaps a monumental stretch.

I filled the tires with air from a service station pay-pump. I noticed there was a lot of moisture in the line. The pay-pump pressure gauge was notoriously inaccurate (40 psi indicated). I measured at home and it was 50 psi. I then reduced to 38 psi.

Any scientific factoid how the water could vaporize and somehow cook/weaken the tire/increase the effective air pressure, etc.?

The tire looks like it suddenly self-destructed.

The RR tire was similarly inflated and it's okay (so far).

S

[skinnerd]

I'd say by looking at the tire that it's not worth complaining to Yokahama.

Either old age or low tire pressure or some other unforseen problem may have gotten you.
This does not look a "typical" failure mode with a tire.
You'll not likely get anywhere with Yokahama when you tell them how old the tires are.

Tires continually age....forever.
Get as hard as bricks eventually no matter how you store them or how they are treated.

Also sometimes things happen.....
I know it's not a great answer or explanation (when you're wanting one).
I'd just count my lucky stars the damage wasn't worse to your car and that noone was injured.

The best thing to do is keep fresh, as new as possible tires on your vehicles.
I do that with all mine....even the ones that only get driven a couple thousand miles per year.
My mom has a 3 year old Lexas that only has 13,000 miles on it, and I'm already trying to convince her to replace the tires that still shown a lot of tread left.

[unclebilly]

They are 10 years old!!! Regardless of the mileage and how they are stored, tires get hard, the rubber breaks down.

2 ********* comments that ring true:

#1 - drive your car, Porsches aren't made to have tires last for 10 years.

#2 - quit being so cheap, once tires get to be 5 years old, they are garbage regardless of how much tread is lefot on them. Our cars handle well and put a lot more stresses on the side walls of tires than your average Ford Taurus or Chrysler K Car would. Driving with old, cracked tires is unsafe.

The above comments are harsh but they ring true.

[ljowdy]

One of my best friends is a retired tire Engineer from Bridgestone/Firestone.

He said "five years and it's time to buy new tires"

[175K911]

Here are some of my thoughts, based on having worked for a tire manufacturer back in th early 90's running some of their company owned retail stores:

Manufacturers recommend replacing a tire after either 5 or 6 years. Some say 5 years from when the tire is place in service regardless of manufacture date, others suggest 6 years from mfgr date since there's no way to know how the tire was stored.

A small puncture can very quickly lead to a major failure if being driven at speed.

Sidewall damage is often the result of hitting something- curb, debris on the road, and most often a pothole. It's not the pothole itself as much as the sidewall of the tire being damaged by hitting the rough edge of the hole.

Tires suffer as much from sitting as from driving, especially some of the older nylon belted tires which develop a memory from sitting. Cars like ours that tend to spend a lot of time in the garage sitting.

Steel belted tires will eventually fail. Every time the tire rotates, the steel belts flex twice- once ahead of the contact patch and once behind it. Think of bending a paper clip back and forth repeatedly. 2 things happen- you build up a lot of heat at the bend, and it will eventually break. Now consider how many times a tire rotates and the heat buildup. One of the reasons the tire companies want tires replaced 5 or 6 years into service.


Without seeing the tire itself, I would suspect the tire was just old. Time to replace. And I would strongly suggest replacing in pairs, if not all four at once. The only other thing you could do if you have a good relationship with a tire store is to see if there is any goodwill available from Yokohama based on the remaining tread life, though based on age I wouldn't put much hope in that avenue.

[dw1]

I'm happy that you (and the wheels) are o.k.

When I first got my 911, it had a set of Michelin XGT Z4's installed. The tread depth was good, and with some kind of Armour-All or other "tire shine" product on them they looked good.

However, upon further inspection there was a array of small cracks in the sidewall, especially near the rim.

One can complain to Yoko about what happened, but they can then ask about storage conditions, inflation pressure, wear history, heat history, etc., etc.

Different tires last different amounts of time. Summer-only performance tires are one thing, all-season tires are quite another. UTQG ratings can give you some indication.

[PCA7GGR]

As I used to tell my son,

"Ask, the worst they can do is say , 'No'.".

Yokohama may also have additional explanations as to why this happened.

[ShakinJoe]

Those look like 8" rims and I too had the 245's on my car. As crazy as it sounds, not all 245's are the same and I really felt the Yoko was TOO BIG faor the 8" rim. If it is old, and you might have been under pressured and it was too big cause bad things to happen to the sidewall.

Just a thought......

I am really glad to hear you and the car are OK.....................................

[bdisco]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=183

^more info

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by bdisco

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=183

^more info

Thanks for the link:
This from a company (Tire Rack) that sells tires:
"...Our experience has been that when properly stored and cared for, most street tires have a useful life in service of between six to ten years...."

Misc. info:
The tires were not dry-rotted or cracked. They were stored, along with the car, in a protected garage, away from sunlight. These are Y-speed-rated tires (186 mph). Tire pressures are always maintained. BTW, the Fuchs are 9x16.

Thanks for all the comments thus far.

Sherwood

[NY91184]

Another thought to consider is that the LR tire experiences the greatest amount of engine heat since the cat runs along side it. Over time the heating and cooling could sacrifice its integrity to some extent.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by NY91184

Another thought to consider is that the LR tire experiences the greatest amount of engine heat since the cat runs along side it. Over time the heating and cooling could sacrifice its integrity to some extent.

Quite true. The cat, especially on an engine not tuned correctly, can glow red hot affecting everything around it.

However, this engine never saw a cat ('69 911).



Sherwood

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Sherwood, I would contact them and ask what happened...

I'll repeat this, based on some more recent posts - I would contact & ask, not complain.

Yoko will likely want to inspect the tire just for their own R&D into failure modes.

[Emission]

Wow. Glad you (and the car) were okay.

It looks as if you developed a leak, didn't notice it, inadvertently drove on it at highway speeds, overheated the tire, and the sidewalls failed.

I'd send Yokohama a note -- it can't hurt.

(I'm running the identical tires on my 930, now I need to go check mine!)

- Mike