Paint issues - advice needed

[SCWDP911]

Looking to see if someone can tell me what the heck happened to my paint. I know the pictures mught not tell the whole story, but hopefully you will see enough of what I am about to ask about. Also, this is cross posted to Paint and Body as well...

Last year when I picked my car up from SD, I noticed some oxidation looking areas on the trunk and engine lids. The car was supposed to be indoors for most of the 6 months it was out there, but I have no way to confirm now, as it was at the shop for part of that time. Not to dwell on that mess, here is the deal. After a few washes, I started noticing these HUGE swirl marks in the paint, like a really bad pre-paint sanding job. What it lookos like is someone took an 80 grit sanding disk to the primer, prior to laying on the top coats. Never saw these before in the 3 years I have owned the car. They are noticeable on the engine and trunk lids, and (luckily), no where else on the car at all. And it is not on the whole lid (either one), just in certain areas. One thing I wonder is if a very good coat (or coats) of wax could have been masking this all of this time, and sitting out at all may have "eaten" through the masking wax coat(s).

Now, to add to that, this morning, I pulled the car into my shop, and what do I see, but a lot of very tiny bubbles in the trunk lid. Almost looks like someone just shot the car with clear coat and it dried with bubbles or dust in it. Never noticed it before, and it again, appears to just be in the clear coat.

Anyway, here are some pics. Assuming I will need to have both lids reshot or permanent fix, btu wondering if there is anything I can do to make it a bit more eye-appealing in the meantime. Thanks for any and all advice...

[DasBoot]

Looks exactly like my front hood lid. Cause? Poor prep/paint job.

[whiskyb]

The bubbles could be solvent pop and I would guess that the swirls are from primer shrink.

[JeremyD]

90% of a good paint job is prep. Looks like they only got 50% there on that job.

[SCWDP911]

Any ideas as to why they were never visible before...

And, what causes solvent pop? Like I said, these just showed up. I have had the car for 3 years and no paintwork in that time. I am guessing someone reshot the hood and decklid (I was told that the car had a tail and some point).

[cgarr]

Was the car covered up with one of those cheap blue plastic tarps?

[Peter Guldan]

Howdy Shane,

Common occurence with 2 part paints when wrong hardener (warm) for shop temp (too cold) used or color shot over high build primers not given time to settle. Color/clear may cure somewhat but the primer does not and with every heat cycle shifts exposing sand lines/imperfections.

If you can roll the sharp edge of your thumbnail over a warm decklid and leave a visible impression this long after that paint was applied, might as well strip if off and start over.

[SCWDP911]

Originally Posted by cgarr

Was the car covered up with one of those cheap blue plastic tarps?

hard to say...

[rhogg]

Shane,

I have a very similar challenge on my very similar car. ( 83 Ruby Red Metallic Coupe) In my case the scratches are love marks, from an overly aggressive wash or clay bar. I did not notice this when I bought the car and it was many miles later that it "surfaced". I wondered if it was me or a bad hand wash in Seattle. A good wax makes the scratches virtually disappear, but also telling was the previous owner's parting advice to get the car a good power polish at some point.

I have masked it with good waxing but will be investigating the power polish in the spring.
While the paint prep comments are no doubt accurate in some circumstances, I'm still on original paint. Aren't you?

[JeremyD]

All paint/primers continue to cure over time. Darker cars create more heat to surfaces which cause the surface to get hotter - and cure the underlying paint/primer/filler more.

less quality products tend to do this more.

polyester fillers used in auto repair businesses tend to do this more (shrink, cure) than epoxy based fillers/primers.

My guess would be that the car was initially garaged more in the beginning. Then it was driven, and left outside more where the paint got hotter and this caused a secondary curing / shrinking process.

I've seen dark boats that have been painted - look great for years - then have one extra hot sunny summer and all of a sudden the fiberglass mat "prints thru" the finish. not pretty.

[SCWDP911]

Originally Posted by Peter Guldan

Howdy Shane,

Common occurence with 2 part paints when wrong hardener (warm) for shop temp (too cold) used or color shot over high build primers not given time to settle. Color/clear may cure somewhat but the primer does not and with every heat cycle shifts exposing sand lines/imperfections.

If you can roll the sharp edge of your thumbnail over a warm decklid and leave a visible impression this long after that paint was applied, might as well strip if off and start over.

Thanks Peter. I will check that out sometime today.

[SCWDP911]

Originally Posted by rhogg

Shane,

I have a very similar challenge on my very similar car. ( 83 Ruby Red Metallic Coupe) In my case the scratches are love marks, from an overly aggressive wash or clay bar. I did not notice this when I bought the car and it was many miles later that it "surfaced". I wondered if it was me or a bad hand wash in Seattle. A good wax makes the scratches virtually disappear, but also telling was the previous owner's parting advice to get the car a good power polish at some point.

I have masked it with good waxing but will be investigating the power polish in the spring.
While the paint prep comments are no doubt accurate in some circumstances, I'm still on original paint. Aren't you?

Originally Posted by JeremyD

All paint/primers continue to cure over time. Darker cars create more heat to surfaces which cause the surface to get hotter - and cure the underlying paint/primer/filler more.

less quality products tend to do this more.

polyester fillers used in auto repair businesses tend to do this more (shrink, cure) than epoxy based fillers/primers.

My guess would be that the car was initially garaged more in the beginning. Then it was driven, and left outside more where the paint got hotter and this caused a secondary curing / shrinking process.

I've seen dark boats that have been painted - look great for years - then have one extra hot sunny summer and all of a sudden the fiberglass mat "prints thru" the finish. not pretty.

Interesting Jeremy. Maybe that is what has happened. Rhogg, I thought I was on original paint on trunklid, but I knew the decklid might have been reshot... that is why I was so surprised to see this on BOTH lids. Based upon your experience, I may have had a combination of wax hiding the scratches, and the car being left in sun in SD for extended period exasberating (sp?) problem.

[bkreigsr]

Shane, have you also posted on the paint and bodywork forum?
...not as active as here, but those that do stop in are truly pros, and usually spot-on (oops - sorry)
so far, I'm leaning towards the primer shrinking, then the prep work. looks like there's a lot of filler (bondo?) under the rear lid. that's where the deep sanding marks come from.
Bill K

[SCWDP911]

Well got the Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and X15(?) wax after the deck to try and at least make it look better. It helped, but certainly not a fix by any stretch. I did this much by hand and will go after it with my orbital later. One question though, it is really looking like it is in the clearcoat. Would there be any help at all by wetsanding the clear and then try to buff out?

[ruby911]

what happened to the bubbles after your recent attempts to address it?

[SCWDP911]

There were no bubbles on the deck lid, only the trunk. I only worked on the deck lid last night. Worked some more deck lid this morning with my orbital and the same meguiar's products, and I have to say the scratches definitely seem to be in the clear coat, they are lessening quite a bit (I am shocked - really). You can still see them without squinting though. I am REALLY leaning towards a light wetsand with some 3000 just to see if I can make any more progress. I will admit though, even as bad as the decklid is, I am still nervous about taking sandpaper to it.

The bubbles are weird. Only showed up on trunk lid. Makes me wonder if I got some sort of chemical splashed up on me from traffic somewhere. The bubbles themselves are hard, so I am thinking the wetsand might help make it a bit more respectable up front too.

[willtel]

Originally Posted by Shane Van Wey

There were no bubbles on the deck lid, only the trunk. I only worked on the deck lid last night. Worked some more deck lid this morning with my orbital and the same meguiar's products, and I have to say the scratches definitely seem to be in the clear coat, they are lessening quite a bit (I am shocked - really). You can still see them without squinting though. I am REALLY leaning towards a light wetsand with some 3000 just to see if I can make any more progress. I will admit though, even as bad as the decklid is, I am still nervous about taking sandpaper to it.

The bubbles are weird. Only showed up on trunk lid. Makes me wonder if I got some sort of chemical splashed up on me from traffic somewhere. The bubbles themselves are hard, so I am thinking the wetsand might help make it a bit more respectable up front too.

Don't be concerned about the wet sanding, just take your time and use plenty of water with a little lubricant in it and use quality sand paper. Also soak the paper for a few hours before you start. There are plenty of tutorials to follow on youtube. The only downside is that once you are finished you will have to do the rest of the car to match your flawless engine cover!

[CCM911]

For the decklid, you need to get some 3M hand glaze. Then put as many coats on as you could in order to fill in the swirls. It may take about five to ten coats, but you will begin seeing the glaze actually filling in and shining better. Once done, hit it with a high quality wax. I had a buddy with an RS America that had a bad hood like yours. I hit it with "Buffy the Paint Slayer"(Porter Cable Buffer), using a foam pad and a really agressive compound. Then I built it up using glaze.

While by no means the ultimate solution, it will buy you time until you are ready to respray.

[Rob B]

The procedure is called cut and buff. I would start off with 1000 grit and a flexable sanding block. They are made of rubber about 1/4 inch in thickness. As posted above, use spray bottle with a tiny bit of soap, keep it wet sanding in circles until the paint is perfectly flat with no gloss or sanding marks visable. Hopefully, you don't go through the clear and start to see color in the water run off. Your next sanding step is progress to 1500 then to 2000 grit. Your final step is to buff to return the gloss and wax to seal it off. Don't be afraid to cut through the clear which will require a re-paint because that is what you need right now anyway. Rob

[SCWDP911]

Benn mulling things over all morning. Then, in perhaps a fit of insanity, I convinced myself to stop being a pansy and get to cutting and buffing. It was still a bit nervewracking, but I figured, nothing ventured nothing gained. I am a very happy boy right now. I cannot believe how well it is turning out. I still have some work to do, but I was so thrilled with the initial results, I had to post some pics. All of what you saw above, turned out to be in the clear coat.

I started out masking off the openings. Then I got out my weapons of mass dest, I mean weapons of mass revitalization! On the left, a rubber sanding block with 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper. On the right, a spray bottle of water with a little bit of cheap wax-free car wash solution...