I should stress that there was a reduction in sound, I would describe it as a little more "muffled" or "muted" now. Anthony at SSA suggested I also put Damplifier Pro on the sheet metal under the sound mat of the engine compartment as well. I decided not to do that. The modern materials do help a small amount just not as much as would have thought or as much as a Carrera.

I also tried putting a heavy wool blanket over the rear seats and draped over the kick panels - not very scientific but still no difference.

i was just about to talk about that. in years gone by, and some still do it today, products like dynamat always preached 100% coverage which is simply not needed for 99% of the installs it is used in. 25-40% is more than adequate to stop the vibrations in a car. the companies said this to sell more product but they were going after a result that would never be achieved - sound reduction. that cannot happen with this type of product.

in the spring i plan on installing new carpet, along with some damp pro and lux liner pro. i will be using the scientific tap-test for the damp pro and then (hopefully) one solid layer of llp.

Look into the Quiet Coat. My car is reasonably quiet and it's a Cab. Hardly any road noise and very very little exhaust noise. I have a pre-muffler and a M&K 1 and 1 Muffler.

I painted the floor from door to door and the entire back seat area. I haven't done anything to the interior of the door skins, but when I rebuild the doors I plan in doing those.

Wow! I'm lovin' this. I was hoping for a few "tips" and here we are on page three.
I'm still digesting all the info. So far, no definate decision on what to go with but I'm busting wanting to get these beautiful carpets in the car.
Which ever route I go I'm gonna take pics along the way.

Thanks again for all the help.....what a great place!

where do you get the Quiet Coat?

Just googled it.... QuietCar

The website says it's cured weight is 8.5 lbs per gallon, and the typical car needs 1-2 gallons.

QUIETCAR

Okay, I know this was overkill but I also sprayed then re-brushed (back seat area) over the floor and on top the Damplyfier Pro. The product covers well, I closed off the old AC opening under the dash and this stuff created a nice texture cover over my welding repairs and with the gun give a nice spackle effect. Even adheres to silver backing of Damplifier, it's tough stuff.

Note: Be careful spraying this, it can create quite a bit of stray spackle and this stuff really adheres so use proper prep/taping.

Your are correct sir!

It is QuietCar. I used 2 gallons on the tub. I brushed on 4 or 5 coats, I think it was easier to control that way. It is a very thick liquid.

there are lots of versions of liquid vibration dampers on the market. here are a few in the order i would use them.

Spectrum - Acoutic Sound Deadener Coating Material

Elemental Designs

Daubert

Can't help but notice you didn't include "Quiet Car"!
Is that because you don't like it.....or never used it?
Thanks.

IS the Quiet Car product a liquid vibration damper??

I would call anything using the ceramic micro-bead technology an absorber & dissipator of sound energy, not a dampener...

i didn't include it because it had been mentioned several times in this thread already. i have no experience with it though.

Thanks. I value your opinion since you've had hands on experience with this.

I forgot to add, but before I put down the foam, I sprayed 3M undercoat on the entire area which is something I do not recommend based on the fact that the fumes almost killed me. Took days before the smell went away, but it filled in all the cracks.

you put undercoating on the Interior???

well this is what their site says...




QuietCar is an advanced viscoelastic polymer soundproof coating for all outdoor applications, specifically cars, vans, trucks and other vehicles. QuietCar can be applied by brush, roller, or sprayed on with the optional spray-gun (sold here) for air compressors or an airless paint sprayer. The advanced viscoelastic properties allow the coating actually absorb unwanted noise and vibration, rather than just block it (which is what mats do).
By absorbing vehicle body vibration, engine and road noise can be reduced by up to 20dB, depending on vehicle and application. This can make, for instance, subwoofers sound 3dB louder (the same as doubling the power!).
The more you apply (underside, inside under carpets, wheel wells, engine compartment walls, trunk etc.), and the thicker you apply, the more noise will be absorbed.



notice that last part i highlighted. that is reason enough for me to not use their products. i don't need the company blatantly lying to me from the start to make me buy more product than is necessary. that is as technical as they get anywhere on the site that i could find. another point to keep in mind is that all of their tests compare the product to asphalt mats, not the modern butyl-based multi-layer products offered by many companies.

I have nothing to gain or lose here but, QuietCar works. Sorry I you were offended by what they state. I read it several times and don't see where they were lying. I don't think they were trying to be deceitful. The company is just trying to say the thicker the coat the better it works. I used 2 gallons on the inside of my car under the carpet and it made a huge difference. With the windows up in my Cab. the interior is almost quiet. No road noise either. If I had it to do over, there is no question, I would use it again.

it only bothers me because i was one of those who was taught, and believed, more is better and 100%+ coverage was needed to be effective. i used over 50sqft of dynamat xtreme in one of my cars when i could have achieved the same results with less than 20 and saved quite a bit of cash.

for years 100% coverage, and multiple layers, was drummed into everyone's brain as the proper way to go about using a damper and that is just not the case. on average you only need 25-40% coverage on flat panels to accomplish what a vibration reducer was intended to do. the 100% approach was simply a way for the companies to sell more product. even the companies that produce similar liquid products today only suggest a maximum of a 3mm coating applied over 2-3 layers. making the statement "the more, and thicker, you apply the more noise will be reduced" is just a lie. at some point the returns will not only diminish but stop, and while a vibration damper will reduce some noise that is not it's intended purpose no matter what the marketing says.

everyone does things slightly different than the next guy and some have done things more than others. i am just trying to relay my experiences with this since i have a lot of time invested in this hobby. i am by no means an expert (as i have already proved in this thread :) ) but i have read more on the subject than the average person.

I sure did and in all honesty, it looked a hell of a lot better then it did before. This was after I cut the rust out and fiberglassed over the holes.

I seem to have the same car as you, blue 86 Euro cab, and I am about to install my new carpet kit. How did you apply the Quietcar inside, paint brush or spray?

I brushed it on after doing a thorough cleaning.

It has helped me NO PROB WITH CARPT EITHER.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264223131.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264223203.jpg

How did the Rattle Trap work for you? I noticed it is a lot thinner than the original matting/pads we have. did you put any thing on top of it for sound muffling or just the Rattle trap and carpet?

I am down to the back padding and the heavy rubber pan covering and am pondering my next step.... to strip it out or not?

This is a great thread on the topic - almost into selection overload with all the options.

This is a great thread on the topic - almost into selection overload with all the options.[/QUOTE]

No kidding!!!
I started the thread. Lots of info, but I started confused and with all the options I got more confused.
I decided to go with Second Skin.....Damplifier Pro and Luxury Liner on top. ( thanks Nineball) My only concern is the weight. But I'm not tracking the car and I doubt I will feel the difference in added weight.
I want to DO IT NOW, but it's freakin 22 degrees with 6" of snow outside and only a small space heater in the garage.

good choice! i'll be doing the same setup in the spring as well. we don't have the snow here (for now) but it's still hovering around the freezing temps.

The rattle trap went on well. I used 100 sf single layer on all areas roof, sunroof included. Double in doors and on the back under the rear cover. Adhesion was great. The thickness was 80mill. Took paint well (painted roof so that it did not "shine" under liner). By cutting into little strips i was able to slip into small hollows in roof and under dash. It also cut down on air infiltration. More pics if you are interested.

Pics are always good!

I am using the quietcar as we speak...

I just applied to the driver side door last night and will be hitting the passenger side this week and the floor the week after.

I cleaned the door with a cleaning solve prior to applying the quitecar.

Now I am searching for some a carpet installation guide for the carpet I purchased.

Rattle trap
 

More pics, I PUT TWO LAYERS IN THE DOOR THE NEXT TIME I TAKE OFF THE PANELS I WILL ADD A LAYER WHERE THE PLASTIC FILM GOES JUST TO SEE IF IT MAKES A DIFFRENCE.(http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264433514.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264433552.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264433606.jpg

i don't think adding that extra layer will help much with vibration reduction and certainly not with noise blocking as the only thing that really makes that panel vibrate is the speaker. it will however improve the sound of your speakers by "sealing" the door and providing an enclosure if you will for the speaker depending on how much you do. you should notice an improvement in midbass response.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...o/100_4586.jpg

I think adding that extra layer will help with vibration reduction and also with noise blocking as anything that makes that panel vibrate will be affected. That includes passing large trucks, the speakers, etc.

Is it worth it? That is the question.

i did a layer on the bottom of the inner skin first on both doors because there was just too much stuff in the way on top. this did give me almost 50% coverage on the outer skin so i was satisfied with the results. i also added a layer of overkill to help with reflecting soundwaves inside the door:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...o/100_4578.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...o/100_4585.jpg
i then did the full layer on the inner skin on the driver's side and went for a ride. i could barely tell a minimal, if any, difference in sound reduction with my naked but trained ear. i did however have a noticable difference in the sound reproduction of my 6.5" midbass driver over the passenger side.

looking at both pics (mine and WRGREENER) i notice that his did not have the support bars in the door blocking the top half. was this some safety feature that was added to later cars? mine is an 83.

Yepper, in 72 they did not have the support bars. This made the install easy. I also took out the glass, frame, and other hardware. Cut the pieces into 4x12 strips and did a x overlay. I gave the original "foam" material a good look and decided that the new material was enough??? I did not take the backing off the floor portion just set it in a large section (just so i can monitor the moister) used a glue pot to shoot the carpet adhesive and both motor noise and road noise has been cut down tremendously.

What does all this stuff weigh? And how much of an influence does it have on performance. I only have 90 hp in my little SWB 912 and hate to weight it down too much. Thanks

i used damplifier pro. it weighs 0.6lb/sq ft. i used roughly 13sq ft total to do the entire car sans the roof (targa) so it added 7.8lbs. i easily removed more than 20lbs of asphalt the factory put on the floor.

Has anyone tried this sound barrier?
 

I talked to a guy from LA who installs stereos for a living and recommended a product called VB4 Barrier from Casade Auto Engineeering. The concept is that there must be a small air gap in order to deflect the sound. It a two ply and comes in sheets of 54in x 37in x 1/4" at $106 a sheet.
Quote:

How does VB-4 work?
The neoprene foam layer creates an "air spring" that floats or decouples the dense layer of vinyl. It is this air spring that allows for the reflection of high energy soundwaves and prevents the sound energy from passing through the dense layer. The foam layer does not absorb sound nor does it "filter" because it is far too thin to absorb high energy, low frequency sound waves. Be wary of any company that promotes a barrier material in this way."

Has anybody tried this stuff?

Flexible - loaded vinyl mass barrier for cars

that is just mlv and a ccf bonded together. most companies sell it like this but i prefer to have them separate fo ease of seams and installation. i did not like their wacky info though, which contradicts itself.

Why should I use a floating barrier and not multiple layers of a vibration damper?
A common misconception is that vibration damping sheets are designed to block road noise, an airborne sound problem. Although this technique can yield a reduction in the overall noise floor, it requires 4-6 layers of material which will increase the cost, installation time and dramatically increases the amount of weight added to the vehicle. Save yourself a lot of time, money and hassle by using a dedicated "floating" barrier material first.
VB-4 weighs 1lb ft² and is equivalent to 6 layers of a vibration damping sheet.


so first they say that "vibration control sheets" (cld) are not designed to block noise but then go on to say if you used 6 layers or more they would. then they compare the mlv/ccf to cld, which they already said is not the same thing. i don't look at compression ratings for engines when i need new tires.

On the floors of my Carrera I layed down 1/4 closed cell foam that's bonded to MLV (Mass Loaded Vinyl). It seems like basically the same stuff as VB-4. It made a nice reduction in road/tire noise coming into the cabin. I did not peel up the old, factory sound deadener but simply layed the stuff down on top of it.

I purchased it from Super Sound Proofing.

In addition to some similar stuff added to the rear shelf, new windshield seal and new (stock) engine mounts, I've got a pretty quiet Carrera.

What Cascade Audio Engineering is claiming is nothing new. If you look under the rear shelf and rear seats (under the carpet) of your 911, Porsche basically did the came thing all along. The sound mats are just some fiberous matting bonded to a heavy, rubber like barrier. They are crude and old technology but the matting is lifting the sound barrier off the sheet metal to accomplish the same thing. It works but today's materials may be better (but not much lighter).