Transmission problem - kicks out of 1st

jcsjcs · jcsjcs's Garage

Hello all -
After a great drive from New York to Maryland and back a few weeks ago, my '84 911 Targa decided to start kicking the transmission out of 1st gear after about 2 seconds from every start.

I was able to hobble home in 2nd gear with no other issues and started to investigate a bit.

I spent some time this weekend adjusting the shift coupling - HOPING this was the problem - but after various adjustments, it clearly is not.

What's next? From what I have read, I may need a transmission rebuild.

Money is extremely tight right now - so I hesitate to take the car in somewhere and end up with a $3000 (or more?) bill.

While I don't have the time / know how to rebuild the transmission myself (even with some of the great guides out there), i would consider having some friends help me pull it out (along with the engine) and send it for a rebuild.

Any suggestions / options are appreciated. Would also be interested in hearing expected costs for the various options.

Hoping to have my car on the road this year - but it may not be possible at this point.

jcsjcs

zippy_gg · zippy_gg's Garage

Before you take the engine/transmission out of the car check out this thread.
Hopefully this is your issue and all is well.

whiteSC59 · 02-22-2010, 12:09 PM

if you can hold it in gear by keeping pressure into 1st gear, its syncro's.

LWJ · 02-22-2010, 01:57 PM

Good luck. My tranny is in the shop this very moment for the very same issue. I pulled the access plate and found nasty small bits. Cross your fingers, it could be adjustment on the coupler.

Good luck!
Larry

yelcab1 · 02-22-2010, 02:06 PM

Dropping the engine is a $400 labor cost, which you will save if you do it yourself. in this case, if the tranny just requires a 1/2 synchro repair, then it is $750. If it requires a more extensive refresh, then $2000 is more likely.

I don't recommend just a 1/2 synchro repair, but I do understand that money is tight.

Good luck with this.

mack6820 · 02-22-2010, 05:00 PM

Im having the exact same issue. Was planning to drop the tranny this weekend. Please let us know what you find and I will let you know what I find.

mark '87 930 · mark '87 930's Garage

It's likely the 1st gear synchro hub. AND if you replace that you should replace the slider...as well as the 2nd gear synchro hub too.

Could be the coupler, but once it's in gear, it's in gear. worn dog teeth is what causes this. I just did all mine and yes, $2000 is very much the case (and I did everything myself).

jcsjcs · jcsjcs's Garage

I appreciate all the feedback.

I am going to give John Walker a call tomorrow to get his input and suggestions on how to proceed.

I will plan to open up the access plate soon to see what i am up against. I promise to post pics.

Anyone know of a good transmission rebuild shop on the east coast?

I am also going to look through Excellence to review some options. I recall seeing some rebuilt transmissions for sale. Is that a viable option? Buy a rebuilt and sell my core?

SCOTITUDE · 02-22-2010, 08:19 PM

if I have no problems with my tranny other than the current problem I'd rather fix mine that go with an unknown tranny, even if rebuilt. Give Taso at TKX Performance a call, he does very good work with 915's.

revmax · 02-22-2010, 09:02 PM

Peter Zimmermann, the author of the book, "The Used 911 Story" has a great 915 tutorial going. Check it out, it's a great read on the rebuilding of the 915 gearbox.
Porsche Wiki

Peter Zimmermann · 02-23-2010, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcsjcs

I appreciate all the feedback.

I am going to give John Walker a call tomorrow to get his input and suggestions on how to proceed.

I will plan to open up the access plate soon to see what i am up against. I promise to post pics.

Anyone know of a good transmission rebuild shop on the east coast?

I am also going to look through Excellence to review some options. I recall seeing some rebuilt transmissions for sale. Is that a viable option? Buy a rebuilt and sell my core?

Please, after reading my Tutorial, tread very carefully when thinking about a rebuilt exchange. I discuss that option within the Tutorial, and it's not, in many cases, the best solution.

jcsjcs · jcsjcs's Garage

I just took a look at Peter's tutorial - need to read it in depth over the next few days. I really appreciate the section that discusses part costs and basically debunks the feasibility of a $1500 rebuild. I can just hear whatever mechanic I choose telling me that there is more damage than initially expected and so the cost is now $2500, then $3500, and so on.

I have to say that those pictures make the transmission look quite beautiful - something about gears that makes me weak in the knees.

So it seems that if I take on this project myself - i have a bit of work and learning cut out for me. And possibly up to $3500 in parts - any estimates on tools required? I will review Peter's tutorials and create a consolidated list (unless there is already on that I missed.)

AND if I have the engine out, probably best to rebuild the clutch too.....

So if the car is off the road anyway - and since I can't afford to have it done in a shop right now - why not take a few months (or more) to do the job myself....

HMMMM more to come on this saga....

Peter Zimmermann · 02-23-2010, 09:51 AM

jcsjcs; how many miles are on your car/transmission? Has the car ever been used for sporting purpose, or mostly street driving?

CCM911 · 02-23-2010, 10:19 AM

If you do indeed need some work, I have heard good things about Gary Fairbanks.

jcsjcs · jcsjcs's Garage

My car has 102k on it. I am the third owner - so I am not sure about its history. My understanding is that the last owner only used it on the street.

I have participated in about 5 AutoX - and plan more when it is back on the road.

The shift coupling was horribly out of adjustment when i got the car. I did not know what to expect and thought it was typical. The PPI should have caught that - but in hindsight they overlooked a number of issues.

I changed to Swepco & adjusted the shift coupling & installed a Seine Shift Gate - and the transmission has been pretty good for the past 6 months.

No issues on my recent trip - but when I got off the highway in NY, it started the kicking out of 1st.

So if I embark on this project, do I open it up and then determine ALL the parts I need to replace? I won't be in any rush to complete the job - but its an interesting way to work - and will be interesting from a budgeting perspective.

Peter Zimmermann · 02-23-2010, 01:06 PM

With only 100K miles it's very possible that you can get away with fixing just the 1st and 2nd synchros. Your next step in the process is to drain the trans oil and see what's stuck on the drain plug magnet.

jcsjcs · jcsjcs's Garage

Thanks, Peter - that's encouraging! Will let you all know what i find.

Marc Bixen · Marc Bixen's Garage

jcsjcs, I assume from your signature your on the East coast? At Red Line we have a professional bore scope and through the drain plug, fill plug , or the fixed fork access plate can look inside the trans at the syncros, dog teeth, sliders , etc., and take actual photos of these items to show the customer. Perhaps there is a shop in your area that has this type of equipment for diagnosis. The teeth for 1st gear are asymmetrical and look different then the teeth for 2nd - 5th, those teeth all look the same so although you cant inspect bearings in this manner, you can look at the other wear items. Draining the oil, performing this inspection and refilling the trans should take about 1-1 1/2 hours.Good luck with your repair.

revmax · 02-23-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Bixen

jcsjcs, I assume from your signature your on the East coast? At Red Line we have a professional bore scope and through the drain plug, fill plug , or the fixed fork access plate can look inside the trans at the syncros, dog teeth, sliders , etc., and take actual photos of these items to show the customer. Perhaps there is a shop in your area that has this type of equipment for diagnosis. The teeth for 1st gear are asymmetrical and look different then the teeth for 2nd - 5th, those teeth all look the same so although you cant inspect bearings in this manner, you can look at the other wear items. Draining the oil, performing this inspection and refilling the trans should take about 1-1 1/2 hours.Good luck with your repair.

Great insight Marc... looks like the master, Peter Z has taught you well young Skywalker

wayner · 02-24-2010, 09:05 AM

My vw dune buggy was doing the same thing in first.
It turned out to be a broken front tranny mount. The tranny was doing a wheelie inside the car, and pulling on the shift linkage causing it to pop out of gear.

Another buddy had loose engine bolts causing teh same problem when teh clutch was first engaged from a stop.