Contemplating a Rebuild - costs?

[ivangene]

so my little stock 3.2 has a billion miles (about 200K) and is running perfect, low oil consumption, pulls 199.8 at the wheels at the dyno and is in general good health

but I know the clock is ticking and prices rise, times change and my ability to do this shifts as time goes on.

if I was to rebuild it - I mean just doing a very modest build, by myself, and do the things needed and add a couple things like balance crank, and other "mods" that didnt really change the compression, stroke, displacement, intake, fuel delivery, exhaust - ect

without cheaping out - but without doing all the "cool stuff" what do you think I should budget for a build

If I win the lottery we will have another thread.....something along the lines of "what are the best roads to drive my 'new to me' 911R home from xxxxxxxx"

[Packet82]

My 3.0 cost $15k. A large chunk of that was due to needing new cylinders, the pressure fed tensioner update, and new heat exchangers. If you can reuse your cylinders and don't need new exchangers, you could probably do it for $8-10k. With 200k on the clock, I'd definitely replace the chains and sprockets though while you're in there though.

[Evans, Marv]

I wouldn't do it until there was a necessity for it. Your engine might be good for 400K or so. You never know. Those & the 3L engines last a long time if cared for. If it were me, I'd consider two possibilities: 1) Do as I suggested and collect parts & establish a savings account along the way until you actually need a rebuild, or 2): Since your engine is running OK, take your time and look around for another one with lots less miles on it for maybe $5K to $7K. There is security in having a newly rebuilt engine, but also a decent amount of cost, effort, and down time.

[ivangene]

Yea, I have thought of that

one reason NOT to is that I have waited SOOOO bloody long to own one of these cars and to "opt" to not drive it for several months (or longer) is something I just have a hard time coming to grips with

My wrench also says wait

I just get to hearing all the little noises and thinking paranoid thoughts ---- maybe that's a better plan, stock pile "bits" and when its time.... I would have some of the things already paid for so the pain would be less at that moment

hmmm

you fella's are good therapy - SOMETIMES!!

sometimes you really like to spend my money

[al lkosmal]

Ed,
For a primarily DIY job, with some shop help for valve job stuff, etc., I would budget $5K-$7K, depending on requirements.....for a total rebuild at a good shop....$15K or so.

regards,
Al

[Joe Bob]

Just do a top end, change the cams to 964s and drive the piss outta it. The bottom ends are bullet proof.

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Just do a top end, change the cams to 964s and drive the piss outta it. The bottom ends are bullet proof.

Plus 1......

[TT Oversteer]

I'm in the middle of rebuilding my 3.2 now. It's finally coming together but so far 8 months into the project. I originally thought I would just freshen up the top end but the problem is that one thing leads to another. Once the top end is apart, it's really tough to not split the case for a look on a 200k engine. It turned out my rod bearings were iffy, intermediate shaft bearings were worn to copper, chains and sprockets were worn. Now I'm in for about $8k on this DIY rebuild with new Mahle P's & C's, crossdrilled & micropolished crank, ARP rod bolts & studs, Calico coated rod bearings, GT3 main bearings, 964 cams, headers, etc, etc, etc.

If you want the experience of rebuilding one of these engines I would recommend buying a core and slowly going through the process as budget allows. When the rebuild is done you can sell your good running engine to recoup some cost. That money up front will be the cost of not having your car down for a year or more. If you're not hell bent on doing a rebuild I would start looking for a fresh motor here on Pelican that you can swap out with yours.

After going through this process myself, I would be hard pressed to do anything if my original motor was running good and not using oil. There is always the element of the unknown with a rebuild as well. Little problems can pop up that are never anticipated, causing delays and taking you past budget. You may be opening yourself up for a lot of cost and heartache for no good reason.

I would drive it until it starts using oil or making bad noises. Otherwise start shopping for a good deal on a low time runner now and make it a weekend project...

[Reiver]

"so my little stock 3.2 has a billion miles (about 200K) and is running perfect, low oil consumption, pulls 199.8 at the wheels at the dyno and is in general good health"

So why rebuild it now? The main issue with the 3.2's is worn guides and if you have low oil consumption you are not there yet.

I have 223K on my 3.0, never opened, took it to my shop for testing (thinking rebuild) and the owner told me to come back after another 50k/5 years for a retest.

He said I should just do the maint and the only thing he worries about on High mile cars are throwing a rod....so if I hear a knock, don't drive it and it'll be fixable...also said my good oil pressure tells him that shouldn't be a problem anyways just the thing to watch for/listen for.

I know what you mean tho, the miles tell you it's rebuild time....that's why I got the prof opinion....my car tells me to just drive it.

[Tippy]

I rebuilt my 3.2 (3.4) for ~$2500. I skimped on rebuilding rockers, rocker shafts, and cams thinking I'd get 964 cams and swap it all out to rebuilt at that time so the old ones went back in.

Luckily the engine was rebuilt earlier so a lot of stuff was in really good condition.

P&C's were really good, crank journals were perfect, and cams were in really good shape. If P&C's are toast, the cost goes high really quick.

But, I believe Steve Weiner stated he never saw a 3.2 P&C wear out. Hope I'm not misquoting him!

[ivangene]

so my buddy's 3.0 threw a rod bearing last DE and that has me really "listening" to mine

if a person was to wait till that happened how does that change the build? How much more work, cleaning, replacing, costs are involved

I know his oil filter has copper flakes in it so there has to be some clean up effort in his rebuild (he opted to try and sell the car)

I change oil often, adjust valves often, and try to stay on top of what really has been a very easy motor to take care of - I mean there isnt much to do so maybe that's why I feel the need to "do something"

[ivangene]

Cory - $2500 is stupid cheap.....I would love to know what you did, why you did it and how it's holding up

I dont think $2.5k is realistic for my motor as it has never been opened and the "while you're in there" list is longer since nothing has ever been done

[Tippy]

No machine work to cases or crank. Did machine work to rods for $200 and heads since I did the money shift. "cgarr" did work but I won't post the ridiculously cheap cost he did mine for in case he raised them. Put all new bearings, seals, timing chains, cam sprockets, and gaskets along with custom Total Seal rings for the 3.4, 7.5:1 Mahle pistons.

Reused pistons but blended off high metal from valve contract to reduce any potential stress risers or areas for detonation. Being turbo'd, that wouldn't be good!

Pickled oil pump, chain tensioners, and oil cooler during teardown, so only did a home flush and clean of those and put them back in.

All dimensions specced by the book by me.

Reused all non critical hardware but since have replaced with new for aesthetics.

Repainted tin and fan/housing with flat and semi gloss black and left valve covers and intake in current powder coat condition.

Does it look like a Henry Schmidt gem? No, but it looks and runs fine with really strong compression on all cylinders.

[ivangene]

AWE - That type of rebuild

you might not know but I am on the cusp of launching the ultimate solution to that - i have been working on it for months and the prototypes are awesome - there was a recent "snag" in the supply chain which I want resolved before I launch, I need some literature and assy instructions and I am done

going to make a lot of people really surprised because the cost is going to be great and the car has a 100% stock look/feel to the shift assy with NO mods to the console, boot or other PLUS offers amazing centering with the exact factory feel of the 5-R plane!!

(sorry - OT)

[Arne2]

Ed, as a data point, my 3.2 had a top end job in 1998 (by Paul Weir) at about 120k. The reason (looking at the binder of receipts that came with the car) was head gasket leaks at #4 & 5. The parts list was extensive, but P&C were re-used. The case was not split, but rod bearings were replaced. My car has an additional 40k on it since the work, is totally dry and oil consumption is minimal, more than 2k per quart. I'm comfortable that it got what it needed back then.

That said, I'd have a hard time not splitting the case on a 200k motor.

[Packet82]

Originally Posted by ivangene

Cory - $2500 is stupid cheap.....I would love to know what you did, why you did it and how it's holding up

I dont think $2.5k is realistic for my motor as it has never been opened and the "while you're in there" list is longer since nothing has ever been done

FYI, machine work at ollie's on my 3.0 came to $3300 alone. I can't imagine you're doing a whole hell of a lot for $2500.

Ed, if you need to borrow one of the 911 specific tools for engine rebuilding, let me know.

[ivangene]

THANKS - I have a good group of "helpers" if I opt to go through with it - building a relationship with your Porsche Buddies - priceless!

[Rodsrsr]

My complete top end rebuild with new chains, ramps, valves, guides, 20/21 grind cams, RSR seals and all the other stuff was just over 5k.

[Tippy]

FYI, machine work at ollie's on my 3.0 came to $3300 alone. I can't imagine you're doing a whole hell of a lot for $2500.

I got a whole rebuilt engine that has all critical items replaced with all tolerances met.

[PorscheGAL]

I would say if the car is running well and you're not burning oil then you don't necessarily need to rebuild right now. That being said, that does not mean that you can't get familiar with the process. Wayne's rebuild book and Bruce Anderson's book are great places to start. Then, if and when, the time comes you know what need to do and anything you might want to do. You can also start putting together a parts list and ordering. It is a whole lot easier to spent $10,000 over time than all at once.