1982 SC clutch replacement snags

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Urgh. Boy oh boy do I wish this car were as easy to work on as my 914...

Anyway, I'm dropping the engine in the wife's 82 SC to replace the clutch. I'm trying the "only drop the engine" method, rather than taking it and the trans out as a unit.

Two snags at the moment. One is the upper bolt on the starter. I can't get the Allen-head socket to seat into it far enough, and it slips when I try putting torque on it. I also picked up an L-shaped Allen wrench for the lower starter bolt, because the edges of the socket were preventing it from going into the bolt straight. I can't get room to swing the long end of the L if I try using the short end in the bolt, and if I put the long end in the bolt the short end is still lying on the starter.

Any ideas? If I need to lower the trans to get room to work, what do I need to disconnect?

The second problem is the fuel return (I think?) hose. It's at the left-front corner of the engine bay, and connects a hose that looks like it may go to the left rocker panel (???), and goes to a fitting on a metal hard line that is attached to the case by a flimsy stand-off. That hard line goes across and hides behind the air meter somewhere, but it looks like there is a "T" before it does that.

Where do I break that? I can't see how I would support the right side near the stand-off, and the joint between the hose and the line heading forward does not seem to want to let go. The 17mm flat on that fitting appears to be connected to the line heading forward, and the other side of the fitting has some flats that a 12mm wrench will fit on. But I couldn't get them to budge. Can anyone tell me in words of one syllable ('cause I seem to be stupid about this!) where and how I can disconnect this hose??

Thanks!

--DD

[James Brown]

45 min. and you would have had the engine and trans OUT and on the bench!

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by James Brown

45 min. and you would have had the engine and trans OUT and on the bench!

Dave,

If you are having some sort of problem/s now removing the engine less transmission, wait till you put the engine back. Or maybe you're the type of person who likes to do things his own way no matter what. I've been removing and installing 911 engines by myself for my friends as a hobby but would never try it without the transmission. Unless you wanted to do it the hard way. Nobody could stop you from doing what you prefer to do. Since your asking for some sort of advise, listen to James Brown.

Tony

[sailchef]

Yep, I've done it both ways, with & with out the transmission.

It is a lot easier, and in the long run, a lot quicker just to take them out together.

To save the hassle when re-installing, I would mate the tranny and engine back together and pull them as a unit.

If you do just the engine, be very carefull when lowering that you do not bend the tranny shaft in the tunnel. you will have to lower the tranny a bit to get the angle to pull engine away. Open the access panel in the back seat at the coupler and watch carefully when lowering engine/ tranny.

Don't forget to disconnect the backup switch, or the two will never come apart.

[Scott R]

That damn barrel nut on the starter is the result of someones poor wrenching ability. People thread that thing too far onto the stud and then you need vice grips to get it off. Best to drop the engine trans attached at this point and attack it on the floor.

The fuel line issue is hard to see at first but the threaded side of the fitting has two flat sides where a 12MM wrench fits. You lock that then break the 17MM side. If it's been on there a while it's going to take some force to get it off.

[James Brown]

Not to snicker at you Dave, I feel your pain. Went to help a friend who did just this. He couldn't get the trans. input shaft to mate with the clutch and pilot bearing while balancing on a floor jack.
Took the engine out, took the trans out, aligned the clutch disk, re-mated the trans., installed the whole unit back in. A better and easer way to go, and less work (more beer time).

[p911sc]

Definitely easier to drop them both together.
Rick

[pete3799]

+1 on drop them both.
I had a hard enough time mating the trans. back up to the motor on the floor.
Course half my problem was the motor was on a dolly.
Chased it around the shop twice before i got it butted up.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

OK, I'll get to work on those CV joint bolts tomorrow. The whole drivetrain will come out then. The coupler in the center tunnel is already disconnected.

And I'll try again with the 12mm and 17mm wrenches on that line. I was afraid I was going to break something...

Thanks for the insights, guys!!

--DD

[newms]

Take your L shaped 10mm allen wrench and cut off a piece about 1.25 inches long. Put it into the allen nut...it will go all the way in since it does not have to angle out due to trans housing....with your 10 mm box wrench already on it. Loosen.

[Gunter]

Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts

OK, I'll get to work on those CV joint bolts tomorrow. The whole drivetrain will come out then. The coupler in the center tunnel is already disconnected.

And I'll try again with the 12mm and 17mm wrenches on that line. I was afraid I was going to break something...

Thanks for the insights, guys!!

--DD

Yes, that connection is tight and you absolutely have to use penetrting oil on the threads firs or you'll end up rounding off the 12mm flats!

WD-40 is not a penetrating oil, get the right stuff.
Allen head bolts alsway have dirt in them and need to be cleaned out first with a small pick, especially the bolts for the CV's.

Do like newms says, make a short stubby 10 mm and use a socket or box-end after you get the unit on the floor.

Before lowering, push the shift shaft in (1st or 3rd gear) to make it easier to clear the tunnel.

[James Brown]

Hey Dave, call Wayne and see if he can stop by and give you a hand! He might have some tips. Just jet him in and you'll be done by monday morning.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Hah! No, James--I'm not going to bother him for this.

The engine and transmission are now on the ground! No real troubles at all to do it that way, thanks for letting me know! The return line gave up with a little more effort (and I used, gulp, WD-40 on it yesterday; that was all I had!!). I found a couple more hoses I had not disconnected once I started lowering the engine, and got them unhooked easily.

Lessons learned:
- The last person who did this job used an air hammer on the starter bolts and the CV joint bolts; they were in very tight indeed!
- Some Snap-On tools suck! The 6mm Allen socket I was using on the CV joint bolts (they're just plain Allen-head bolts, not triple-squares!) started twisting in a fairly permanent way.
- Using two floor jacks makes it a lot easier to get the drivetrain dismounted, you can push the front of the trans upward while lowering the engine enough to slide the gear selector shaft out of the center tunnel.
- Either the speedometer is telepathic, or those two wires are the speedo drive, and they disconnected themselves while I wasn't looking.
- Just pull the trans along with the engine!!
- You really, really do need to get the tail end of the car up higher than it is now.

...So I'm going to rustle up some bricks and boards to support the engine/trans while I use the floor jack to lift the car even further.

I can tell putting the thing back in is going to be a pain in the butt, though.

--DD

[boyt911sc]

Dave,

Take some pictures of the engine on the floor and show us which fuel hoses are still connected. The fuel delivery is the hose coming from the top of the fuel filter leading to FD. The return line has T-connection mounted near intake runner #3. There is also a vacuum hose connected from the side of the air box (driver side) leading to the tunnel.

You have done the critical portion of the engine drop. Disconnecting the remaining hoses are the finishing and easy part of it. Good job.

Tony

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Tony, I found the hoses and disconnected them, so there is nothing keeping the engine in the car. Except for the rear panel of the engine bay...

--DD

[aldente295]

Get that rear bumper off! 4 bolts and a couple of screws for the license plate lights, and you'll thank yourself later!

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts

Tony, I found the hoses and disconnected them, so there is nothing keeping the engine in the car. Except for the rear panel of the engine bay...

--DD

Do you still have the engine wiring harness connected to the rear fuse panel? The 14-pin connector separates the engine wire harness from the chassis side. I usually do this first before anything else for an engine drop. I would expect at this point that all the oil lines, breather hoses, wirings (including the starter connections), and clutch cable are all disconnected.

What do you mean by 'Except for the rear panel of the engine bay'?.

Tony

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

All wires, hoses, cables, and other connections are disconnected. The engine and trans are sitting on my floor jacks, as low as they can go, an not connected to the car in any way.

The comment about the rear panel of the engine bay was a snarky way of saying that I didn't get then tail of the car up high enough, so I can't get the engine out from under it.

--DD

[Gunter]

Friendly comment:

Most of these snags could of been avoided by going slower and double-checking.

If you didn't mark all connections and hoses with masking tape, you'll be sorry later.

Lots of pictures would also help to re-install later.

Dirt is the enemy of CIS; seal the ends of the fuel lines.

Take your time and address all the issues that are normally dealt with while the engine is out.

"Haste makes waste"

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

A followup note:

The drivetrain is out, the trans is separated from the engine, the pressure plate and clutch are off. I had to stop and get the M12 triple square (thought I had one, oops!) for the flywheel. The flywheel looks pretty well-used; I will ask a machinist tomorrow if it can be turned or not.

I'm not looking forward to installing the snap-ring on the throwout bearing, it looks like it will be on the difficult side because there are no holes for the nose of the pliers.

Due to other commitments, I'm only able to work on this in small increments. That, plus I work really slowly if it's a job I haven't done before...

--DD