Flipped sprocket (280k miles) - chain/sprocket

[pareto]

Engine has 325 kMiles and sprocket flipped at around 45k miles by a distracted mechanic 280k miles ago....what an engine!! .....yup...he was experienced..one too many beers....things to expect?....logged already 1k miles and tight....so: our engines are so forgiving....sprocket alignment forgiving?...and the question of new v. old chain/sprocket...found the advice too late...I'll keep you posted you all...Great Forum!!!

[sc_rufctr]

That's crazy. Was the engine noisy because of this?

[pareto]

Not at all...a silent killer...I started with a 2 day clutch job and ended upo with a 2 month project...first time changing chains, ramps, feeding chains (neat trick if the chain falls sideways of the intermediate shaft sprocket......wrap a section with insulating tape, and feed until it locks in step...a breeze), cam timing, etc...lots of thing to learn in this great forum...but other than a lot of ferromagnetic material over the years at every oil change...now explained....see pix attached...nothing...the right chain literally machined its way about a fourth into the sprocket and wore itself with thinner side links and streched about half a link in the process...ready to pop.......when you have it down, it pays to just look!!

[James Brown]

Nice catch, great engine, crappy mech.

[jimbauman]

...another reason to delay the beer drinking til the wrenching for the day is done!

JB

[James Brown]

Ever see the video of the Porsche factory workers drinking on the job, classic.

[jimbauman]

I took a factory tour in 1996 and saw it in person! They were building the early Boxter engines at the time... 'nuff said!

[pareto]

Hi there....he is a great mechanic...to his credit, his job, repairing a broken stud at 45K, has lasted 280K miles and keeps on going....for a total of 325K miles on the bottom...does somebody have a solid opinion on the combination of new chain and sprockets?...I read that once the engine was in, so, I guess I am conducting a real test that also includes side stress on the intermediate shaft sprocket (ISS).....BTW, the ISS looked OK....so far so good....don't drink and wrench!!

[kodioneill]

Originally Posted by pareto

Not at all...a silent killer...I started with a 2 day clutch job and ended upo with a 2 month project...first time changing chains, ramps, feeding chains (neat trick if the chain falls sideways of the intermediate shaft sprocket......wrap a section with insulating tape, and feed until it locks in step...a breeze), cam timing, etc...lots of thing to learn in this great forum...but other than a lot of ferromagnetic material over the years at every oil change...now explained....see pix attached...nothing...the right chain literally machined its way about a fourth into the sprocket and wore itself with thinner side links and streched about half a link in the process...ready to pop.......when you have it down, it pays to just look!!

What are we looking at here?

[john walker's workshop]

wondering that myself.....

[80-911SC]

i just want to see the video ..........got a link james???

[Flat6pac]

Looks like metal on a ball bearings from the gear but I dont recognize the piece with all the holes.
Bruce

[pareto]

Hi all....what you are looking at is a MagDog Magnetic filter I invented a few years ago..... you can see it at Pareto Point Industries under link MagDog for info.....you are also looking at micropix of the magnetic debris that the full flow filter did not trap, or for that matter the magnetic plugs....works on a differential pressure principle where a bit of oil is constantly flowed over powerful Neodymium magnets with field concentrating caps that you see arranged in a circle within a sealed chamber where debris is immune to detaching due to surges (hard acceleration) or cold starts (viscous oil drag) since it is trapped within a "quiet" zone....now I know why at every oil change it was loaded.....chain and sprocket machining each other....

I still want to know the new chain v. old/new sprocket question??...does it matter?.....seems we do not have to be overly cautious with alignment??....Thanks!

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by pareto

Hi all...

I still want to know the new chain v. old/new sprocket question??...does it matter?.....seems we do not have to be overly cautious with alignment??....Thanks!

Yes it does. I would use a new chain and sprocket and get the alignment spot on.
And that's it. Don't second guess it. You engine is worth the extra cost of the new sprockets.

I like the concept of the magnetic filtering device.

The design reminds me of the centrifugal oil filter in my old Fiat 500 engine although in operation it's completely different.
That engine was something else... To clean the oil filter all you had to do was open the cover and clean out the gunk.

[pareto]

Thank you...I did make the effort to align the sprocket and chains carefully...I did not have the opportunity of the information regarding the combination of old and new....so, I have to wait and see and conduct a test!...I'm glad you like the magnetic filter concept...what can I say: it helped save my engine....contrary to the centrifugal on the 500 it has no moving parts....the Fiat was a Cinquecento?.....just saw here in Los Angeles a 2009 Fiat 500...nice recreation....Best,

[Gunter]

New chains without new sprockets? Read this! - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

[kodioneill]

Originally Posted by pareto

Hi all....what you are looking at is a MagDog Magnetic filter I invented a few years ago..... you can see it at Pareto Point Industries under link MagDog for info.....you are also looking at micropix of the magnetic debris that the full flow filter did not trap, or for that matter the magnetic plugs....works on a differential pressure principle where a bit of oil is constantly flowed over powerful Neodymium magnets with field concentrating caps that you see arranged in a circle within a sealed chamber where debris is immune to detaching due to surges (hard acceleration) or cold starts (viscous oil drag) since it is trapped within a "quiet" zone....now I know why at every oil change it was loaded.....chain and sprocket machining each other....

I still want to know the new chain v. old/new sprocket question??...does it matter?.....seems we do not have to be overly cautious with alignment??....Thanks!

Ground control to major Tom's are your Neodymium magnets aligned?
You're kidding right?

[Hodgey]

...always new chains with new sprockets, or new sprockets with new chains whichever you prefer... just my $0.02 worth

[Flieger]

Sounds like he is describing a Dirac string arrangement of magnets which have their flux orientations arranged such that the field around the chain is amplified on one side and almost completeley cancelled on the other.

Beyond North and South: Evidence for Magnetic Monopoles: Scientific American

See also "spin ices".

[Gunter]

Since the wobble in the Earth axis reverses poles every 100.000 years or so, these magnets would have to be re-aligned accordingly.

Over the years, I've noticed that about 50% of viewers recognized the importance of new chains/new sprockets but the other half would say: "Yeah, that makes sense but I'll ignore it and feed a new chain onto old sprockets anyway."

Go figure.