Need help with '69 911 front suspension

[daniel911T]

Hi Everyone,
I have a 1969 911T with about 78,000 miles on it. The body is newly restored due to an accident a couple of years ago caused by steering that is downright spooky. She's been sitting in storage for about the last three years, being driven rarely during that time.

I am now planning on finally bringing the car out of hibernation, but I feel I need to get the front suspension in shape before I try to drive it the 1,000 miles to home.

I am quite sure that the tie rods and ball joints are worn, and replacement of both is planned. I was am already budgeting for the turbo tie rod kit and OEM ball joints.

I am also quite sure that all the front bushings, both the full set of A arm bushings and the ones at the top of the shocks are likely very worn. I have noticed that Pelican parts doesn't seem to carry OEM replacement stuff, so I'm left with a choice: Poly-Bronze bushings or the poly plastic type? Similar question for the shock top bushings: Poly-graphite or monoball?

This is a daily driver, nothing special, I may take it around the track once or twice, but I will not be racing the car. I want a comfortable, quiet, long lasting setup. I don't mind needing to grease bearings every now and then. I'm also trying to not break the bank. Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, or alternatives are requested!

Thanks for the help!

[Flieger]

You would be fine with rubber. Elephant Racing sells factory style rubber replacements. Do not use anything other than rubber or actual bearings.

Monoballs are great. They really make the suspension move more smoothly and yet keep the alignment settings and kinematics in perfect harmony. They make the ride smoother. It is the torsion bars and really the anti-sway bars and dampers that make the ride "harsh". If you stick to stock springs and dampers, you can go either way on the bearings.

I replaced old urethane bushings with Rebel Racing A-arm bearings, and the top strut rubber bushings with monoballs in the stock housings. I also changed the ball joints and I already had Turbo tie-rods. I am very happy. The squeaks are all gone and the ride is much smoother. The car is much more stable over bumps around curves. There is more grip and the front end is nice and sharp on initial turn-in rotation. I can really feel what the car is doing much better. (I do have monoballs in the rear)

The other benefit of the Rebel Racing A-arm bearings is that you do not need to do any maintainance.



I was going to go for rubber since PolyBronze was more expensive. Then I found these and decided since they were in-between the two prices, I would go for them.

One-stop shopping. http://www.rebelracingproducts.com/Suspension/Steering.html

[daniel911T]

Wow, those RSR bearings look amazing!

Sadly, Pelican doesn't seem to carry them. I was able to find them on the RSR website, but they were priced about $100 more than the Elephant Racing poly-bronze bearings. Were you able to find them for less than $350?

Finally, is it acceptable to mix and match, ie: monoball on the top and rubber on the bottom, or more likely, bearings on the bottom with rubber or poly graphite at the shock top?

Thanks all!

[Grady Clay]

Daniel,
Welcome to the Forum
You will find a lot of help here.

The original ‘pinch-bolt’ connection between the strut and the ball joint is suspect. It is common for the pinch-bolt to not hold the ball joint pin tightly and give ‘spooky’ driving feel. In fact, the pin can come loose separating the bottom of the strut from the A-arm. Bad things start happening very rapidly. This arrangement was common to 1969 through 1971 models.

Porsche ‘cured’ this problem starting in ’72 with a ‘wedge-pin’ type of connection (similar to a Model T front end).

You should inspect the connection between the ball joint pin and the strut. What type of attachment do you have?

‘Turbo’ tie-rods, new ball joints and new rubber bushings will bring your 911 back to better than original.

Keep in mind the shock absorbers (all four) and the rear suspension bushings.
It is exceedingly important to maintain proper front-to-rear balance.

Was your 911T equipped with sway bars? If not, that is a worthwhile addition.

Again, WELCOME.

Best,
Grady

[daniel911T]

Thanks a lot for the reply!

The suspension is completely stock as far as I know. I believe it has the pinch bolt ball joint connection (bolt with huge shoulder) that was stock for that year. Sadly, I do not have a sway bar, but one is planned for the future, and from what I've read the car should already be prepped for installation.

Unfortunately, my car is in Texas, and I'm in Virginia. I'm planning a massive parts buy, then fly out to my car, up-fixin it, and get on the road for the long drive back to Virginia.

Just so I'm sure I understand you, are you saying that I have to replace all the bushings in the suspension at the same time? That sounds like it will certainly break my budget and perhaps take more time than I have.

Also, I don't see any OEM rubber bushings for sale except for the Elephant Racing ones, and the Poly Bronze replacements are only $60 more. The Poly bronze bushings seem like a longer term solution (won't flow with time like rubber.) What are the reasons to choose one or the other?

[Flieger]

I guess the price I found for the PolyBronze was more because I was looking at the installation service for $500. PM me if you are still interested in the RSR bearings.

FWIW, I actually have one pinch-bolt and one wedge pin strut. The car has had a hard life and I do not know how that came to be. Anyway, as long as the pinch bolt is not damaged/corroded and is torqued correctly, there is not much risk.

The PolyBronze are better for performance but you have to grease them regularly. The price of the Elephant Racing rubber bushings is due to the install tools and the cost of developing them. Others on this board have found similar rubber bushings that had no instructions or tools to install but were much cheaper. I did not want to grease so I went with the RSR bearings.

It is fine to mix and match top monoball (good for getting an alignment and more camber) and rubber A-arm bushings. It is just that the suspension will only be as "sporty" as the weakest link: the rubber. You will still have a level of isolation.

You really should do ALL the bushings at once. I saved up money and bought parts one at a time, then took the car to my mechanic (a friend and quick worker) who installed everything in much less time than I would have needed. That means: RSR bearings, monoball strut bearings, rear Smart Racing spring plate bushings (cheap, hard, and maintainance free), new ball joints, and I already had the rear trailing arm monoballs when the engine was out earlier. I also had done all four brake rotors, brake pads, brake fluid, brake fluid reservoir, remove dust shields.

Doing all the bearings at once means you only need to pay for one alignment and corner balance. It also means less total labor since many of the bushings require the interconnected parts to be taken apart, so you would be doing it again and again. It also means you start fresh with everything working well and there is no worn "weak link".

It is also much easier to install a front sway bar without the struts and fuel tank in the way. Unless the holes are already drilled and drop link tabs welded onto your A-arms.

[911pcars]

You might consider installing a complete late model front end (up to '86 or so I would guess). You will end up with a more desirable strut attachment (per Grady) and perhaps one not needing immediate replacement pieces. You might be able to find one for around $250-$350 plus resale value for your existing suspension to a 914 owner looking to upgrade their front end. In addition, the brakes on a later suspension will have vented rotors (yours are probably solid); '84-on suspension will have slightly beefier rotors as well. No other issues with the swap.

As Grady and Flieger suggests, find a through-body front sway bar at the same time.

MHO,
Sherwood

[Trackrash]

No other issues with the swap.

... Except in '74 they changed the design of the front sway bar and the mounting attachments on the A arms were different.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

... Except in '74 they changed the design of the front sway bar and the mounting attachments on the A arms were different.

Yes, the through-body SB is preferred, but it's not an issue if he decides to use the underbody sway bar as equipped on late suspension.

S

[daniel911T]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Sadly my 911 has other problems that need addressed too, like a new clutch, fixing major oil leaks, and Weber rebuilding and rejetting, that are putting my budget in a major pinch.

I've decided to take care of the stuff I can't avoid in the suspension; ball joints, tie rods, and an alignment. I think I'll ultimately go with the RSR hardware for the front, and some rough equivalent for the spring plates, then sealed monoballs where applicable. You've convinced me to do all that stuff at the same time, which is almost surely the better course of action.

Thanks again to all for your advice!

-Dan

[Flieger]

Good plan. Let us know if you need any more advice.