Building a 20 year tribute to the '67 911R from an '87 Carrera..need your input

[Dueller]

No, not looking to to build a SWB '67 911R clone out of an '87...rather modifying an '87 in the general spirit of that iconic predecessor to the longhood S. Its time turn my attention to my faithful "plain jane" former daily driven 87 Carrera now that its relegated to a weekend toy.

The car is mechanically sound with a fresh top end, clutch, sensors, lines about 10K miles ago. Total mileage 155K. Interior OK but not pristine. Never in an accident but the paint has taken on a patina and has had some minor paint touch ups along the way for door dings/chips etc. While people tout how valuable the G50 cars have or will become, mine ain't no garage queen...its a driver. If I were interested in a concours car I'd just sell this one and shop for a low mileage example and be done with it.

But my interest is more performance oriented...backroad carving and the occasional DE is more my style. I've done w2w racing over a 2 decade span and while I enjoyed it at the time, I'm beyond mounting the race weekend small military campaigns that is amateur road racing. I want a car that is relatively streetable but competent on the track days.

So I look for your input on how you would mod the car in the bare bones spirit of the 911R. What I'm not interested in is complete glass bumpers or flares or spending a ton of money going to a 3.6 conversion. Again, if I wanted that I'd just sell my car as is and buy one already built for pennies (OK, quarters) on the dollar. I wanna stay with the relatively fresh 3.2. In essence I'd like to have a 1987 "Carrera R" if the factory had built that instead of the Club Sport or RSA.

Where its at now: A/C delete, backdated heat, chipped, cat bypass, sport two out muffler, rear seat delete, bumper overrides removed, tail lid replaced with a plain lid. I want to upgrade suspension with 22/29TB, upgraded bushings, bumpstear, raised front spindle, possibly larger adjustable Sways.

Beyond that, would you replace quarter windows/rear glass with lexan? Completely remove sound deadening? Just interior? Seats? Near total carpet delete? Simple door panels. Replace bumper blades with 'glass to maintain stock appearance?

I'd like to get to an honest 2400#'s (or less) and 240 hp? Feasible?

Thanks for your thoughts...

(and Milt could you weigh in on your Carrera "R" from your sig)

[RWebb]

many of the things you list aren't really compatible with the G50 and its leviathan clutch setup - or maybe you've already dispensed with the clutch/flywheel?

- you removed the a/c & backdated the heat, what else re heater?

strip out all the sound deadening, auto heater with boosters, electric seats, etc.
- everything that makes it a luxury car

Euro crush tubes to replace the bumper shocks; maybe a FG bumper in rear

generally work harder on the rear and work on the higher parts of the car, rather than lower

Lexan windows come with some heavy penalties & the carpet won't save a lot - but the sound deadening IS heavy on your car

a lot of labor there - maybe you have a work-release candidate in mind?

use SSIs or headers & toss the stock exhaust

- Shakin' Joe (sp.?) did a good job of dealing with the heavy stuff in these last o' the 911 cars

[Dueller]

Yea, RW...I'm pondering the options on lighter clutch/pp/fw.

BTW...did you ever come up with a seat choiice?

[JeremyD]

Good thread here

438 lbs gone in 5 days - My Build Story

[Dueller]

Yeah, jeremy...Joe's thread is what got me to yanking stuff. He's gone a slightly different approach since he went with a back date. I don't plan to go that far.

[RWebb]

Jim, I plan to just keep my Recaro SE seats - I have not found anything lighter (that hinges to allow access to the rear) & they work well.

If, someday, there is a nice CF seat that weighs only 7 lbs. well...

[JeremyD]

Jim - Did you see this one?

Finally! Continuing the transformation of our 911. UPDATED 4/26/10 - Rennlist Discussion Forums

[Dueller]

Thanks for the link, Jeremy...good ideas on that thread

[GaryR]

2400# for an 87 is going to require some serious stripping. My 78 SC weighs about 2500# and it has fiberglass bumpers and rear deck, no bumper shocks, no sound deadening, an 11lb carpet set, super-light aluminum seats, no heat, no a/c, no fans, lightweight battery, etc etc. It does have a full cage though.. RWebb has it correct, lighten the rear and up high all you can, the difference between a sunroof panel (with the cables, motors, runners and reinforcement) and a non-sunroof panel is substantial.

[911st]

To me the things the stand out about the 911R is the special front fenders & bumper, the rear windows, the rear stop lights. And narrow body design.

However, I did see a wide body virsion once.

You could sell off your front and put a 911R fiber front on. On the back one could go to narrow rear flairs. I think I would just have a body shop round out the ridge near the wheel opening to make it look more like an ST flair. Then put a fiber RS rear bumper on it with the R tail lights.

[jpnovak]

To me the 911R is simple, light and fast.

Simple means nothing extra that is not needed. It also has a simple look that is void of excess trim. I don't think that the impact bumpers fit with this look. IMO fiberglass replacements are a must to go after the simplified look. Even the SC-RS had a clean, fiberglass bumper.

Light means to strip weight. More race car oriented go extreme. Still street-able keep as much as you are comfortable.

Fast means that if you proceed to meet the first two criteria the last will naturally fall into place.

There was a recent Excellence with a lightweight SC. This should be your target for your modern 911r interpretation.

[Dueller]

OK...here we go. Life kinda got in the way but I'm starting in earnest.

I had originally thoughgt about replacing just the bumper blades to retain a somewhat stock appearance. But thru a very generous Pelican I was able to pick up practcally new front and rear fiberglass RS units at a huge discount. First issue is that the muffler that was on the car when I bought it years ago is too close to the lower valnce so I'll have to trim it a bit. Not a problem...so a little SS bling will have to show through.

Anybody know what make muffler this is? Seems well made but can't find any markings. It's a 1 in 2 out...3" diameter inlet and outlets.

[widgeon13]

Looks like a 2 out B&B.

[TRE Cup]

This is a decent way to backdate it. G series body like your car. note the light hinges, R lamps, simple screen. Budget hint: If you drill the heck out of your standard rear lid frame, it will end up as light as most fiberglass rear lids, lose the stock hinges and install R units. Of course if there is $$ around, then one of our rear lids will save you even more weight out back

[Dueller]

Thanks, Dave...that's a gorgeous work in progress. I really wanted to do something that didn't entail an entire backdate. Your hinges will be a part of this build.

I also scored a fiberglass short hood.

[Dueller]

Woohooo...pieces and parts arriving right and left!!! And thanks to fellow Pelicans for the great deals on a lot of nearly new stuff at bargain prices.

Suspension stuff arriving tomorrow.





I think I've taken some weight outta the azz given the new ride height.

[Jgordon]

You'll lose a lot more weight off the rear by ditching your current exhaust setup and going with SSIs and an M&K two-in, one-out. Gave me almost an inch of lift from stock, must weigh a good 60 lbs.

Also, replace the boat anchor stock battery with an optima for some more weight savings.

Looking forward to the rest of the build.

[Dueller]

I'm right there with ya, Jg. I'm on somewhat of a self imposed budget, so instead of the 16 lb Odyssey battery I opted for a 21 lb Miaata battery special ordered thru Sam's for $51.00. Headed for the smuggler's box once I remove that portion of the a/c. Sure is an improvement over the 49 lb behemoth that was in there.

I'm pondering the exhaust situation...although I live in a temperate clime, I can get brisk on a winter morning and windows can frost/fog up so I haven't really decided about no heat which will dictate to some degree about the exhaust decision tho' SSI's appear to be the way to go until rarelyL* develops his header w/heater boxes.

[obrut]

911 & Porsche world had a great article a little while back about the SC/RS's. Lots of inspiration for light weight G series cars in there.

This is the mag:
911 Porsche World Magazine - Shops

[tazzieman]

Think I speak for all Aussies in that we are hugely envious of you stateside guys and your cheap P cars! I mean several of you have 2 or more and can seemingly chop and change at will. Here , a 1/2 reasonable classic 911 costs upwards of $US26-27k. There's a no big deal '78 ex US car on sale for ~50k , nuts!

Much as I'd love to do a rat porsche totally stripped of XS fat , it's unlikely to happen. Though I have no qualms about LHD and I spose I could import one .

In the meantime I'll have to admire your fine collective efforts!