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it seems like everyone else has done it, so why not me... (interior)
finally had some free time to start this project so here we go.....
found a used scissor lift a few weeks back on cl and snatched it up quick. the brand is benwil (never heard of it) and it is a 48" 6klb lift. this thing is massively heavy and made of very thick steel, much thicker than pics of some other brands i have seen online. it works very nicely, and it is 110v, which is a godsend since i can't get a 220v line in the garage. bought some 2x10 boards, doubled em up and screwed em together. took an old pair of steel ramps that were useless due to their angle and chopped off the back and gave em a few coats of rustoleum. screwed these into the 2x10s and i have a nice cheap set of ramps to drive up. they were still a little too high for the 2x10 boards but i set it up so that as soon as i "drop down" i am in the perfect position on the boards. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior008.jpg went to the grocery store and bought a box of ziploc sandwich bags and used them to hold all the screws for each piece i removed. hopefully reassembly will be much easier now. removed the seats and everything else that i needed to, then took the carpet out. took out my handy dandy multi-purpose scraper and my heatgun and went to town. the old asphalt came up surprising easy and the whole job took about 3-3.5 hours to ge to this point. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior001.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior002.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior006.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior004.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior003.jpg i am very happy to report that there was not a spec of rust anywhere to be found. i was also able to save about 90% of the padding on the back of the seat sound pad by slowly working it off with a gloved hand. this is all that was left on the floor. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior007.jpg i noticed a few things while doing this job. at some point a window was broken because i found a lot of little glass pieces on the floor. looks like it was on the driver's side of the car. the factory asphalt, while one solid looking piece, had different sections. most of it was a solid sheet but some of it was cut into small hexagon patterns which made it break up into tons of little pieces. it is a good idea to keep track of where you lay your heatgun down. my right ring finger has a nasty burn on the side of the tip as i wasn't paying attention and touched the heatgun tip with it. ouch does not even begin to express the pain. i do have 2 questions and hopefully someone can shed some light on them for me. do i need to remove the rubber seal/weather stripping to get to the rest of the vinyl that was attached to the carpet here? http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior005.jpg if so, how does it come off? i am assuming it just pulls off like a modern car but before i removed anything i wanted to ask. i looked over the length of it but i did not see a break anywhere to start pulling it off from. similarly, how do i remove the trim piece on the back side of the door frame? i got the top trim piece and the rear side trim piece but that part that is on the door frame is on solid and i cannot see any screws holding it on. the green arrow is pointing at the piece i am talking about. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3.../rearlines.jpg |
one other thing.... goo gone is freakin amazing for removing glue/ashpalt/crap from your hands that happens while doing this project. smells good too.
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The weatherstripping just pulls out. Its glued in but it shouldn't give you much trouble. The vinyl edge of the carpet is wrapped and glued to the metal edge behind the rubber.
..and if you want any decent sound coming from your sub enclosure, you are going to want to seal the bottom of the box, making sure the entire enclosure is air tight. |
looking forward to your progress. I really need to make some time to do my interior. Have most of the stuff ready in boxes, but "time keeps on slippin"...
nice score on the lift. Never thought to look for one of those on CL. I have something new to search for on Craiglook. Wife will be pleased...:rolleyes: |
Nineball...... Best of luck with the project. I know it will turn out perfect. You were a great source of help when I did my interior!
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thanks, i thought it was just glued in place but wanted to be sure. no need to worry about the audio end of things, i have that covered. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/495273-new-audio-install.html Quote:
thanks mate, i appreciate it. the only thing that will be holding me back will be free time. anyone have any info on the rear doorjam trim piece? |
so, on CL, where exactly did you find the lift? EB auto parts, garage sale, ??? find the screw and extract. you will have a much better finished product with the trim (as much as possible) taken off. it all (door rubber & other trim) goes on in a heartbeat. it it tough stuff.
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over the past 7 months or so i have been searching for the term "lift" on my local cl as well as the neighboring ones. you get a lot of results you don't want (lifted trucks, lift kits, wheelchair lifts, scooter lifts, etc) but when checking everyday it goes pretty fast after the first time or two.
fwiw 2/4 post lifts around here go for $1500-4000 depending on condition and capacity. i have only seen two scissor lifts like mine and the first one sold for close to $1000. i found mine about 35 mins away listed for $500 and i was out there the same day to look at it. paid the guy on the spot and gave him an extra $50 to deliver it using his flatbed trailer that had a winch on it. best money i have spent do far. |
had the day off so it was right back into the garage for more.
somehow i missed the asphalt sheet on the kick panel so i had to remove those first. this stuff was the third version of this material in my car. it was much harder to get off than anything else i had before. before http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...nterior003.jpg after http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5699.jpg from another threads suggestions i went to home depot and picked up a bottle of this: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5702.jpg worked pretty damn good and smelled like an orange creamsicle! i left it on for about an hour but for future use longer would do better. poured some out into a cup and used a 2" brush to dap it on. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5697.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5698.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5700.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5701.jpg after an hour or so (remember leave it on longer if you use this in the future) i was able to wipe about 60-70% of everything off with just paper towels. after that i cut a plastic scraper down to about 2" wide and started scraping the remaining bit keeping my shop vac right next to it to suck up everything i was scraping up. the results: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5706.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5708.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5705.jpg |
did the same thing to the left over jute on the rear seats. it took a little more to saturate everything but it worked just as good.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5711.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5712.jpg once that was removed i had to go back and wash down everywhere the remover was. it wasn't toxic or anything but it did leave a residue that would have prevented the next step from working. bucket of water and a rag, the shopvac to hose up the water and some elbow grease and everything was done. next up was to lay down the damplifier pro. i had a bulk pack (36sqft) leftover from previous installs so in it went. i probably went a little overboard but what you see below used 7.25 sheets (12.2 sq ft or about 7.26lbs total). http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5703.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5704.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5717.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5716.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5718.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5719.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5720.jpg taking a break for a little bit now to shower and get some food. i'll be spending the night out there putting in the padding and possibly getting a start on the carpet but that may be a bit more than i want to do in the same day. |
If I recall, you already did the doors and rear shelf (I followed your work closely). What were you going to lay over the Damplifier? - Maybe you mentioned it and I missed it... I did the rear shelf with Damp Pro and Luxury Liner Pro and wasn't impressed. I'll be rooting for you to quiet these beasts down.
I'm still intending to do my floors and was looking at the Super Soundproof CC foam from Aircraft Spruce. They have the thickness I'm looking for. |
Nineball
About the "trim piece" at the rear of the door jamb, I remember seeing on a post here somewhere that it does not remove as it is actually a piece of metal welded to the body that is just covered with vinyl.. so if the covering is in good condition I would not mess with it. I can not find the post right now but will do a little more searching and if I find it will post a link to what I am talking about..was interested because I have to replace that piece on my cab.. Good luck with the renew Gregg S. |
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thanks greg i figured that one out already. only took me about 30 mins of looking around to figure it out too :) on to the last part of today. got some 1/4" high density vinyl/rubber commercial carpet padding to put between the damp pro and the carpet. used about 100 sheets of paper so far making templates for the first step. since all the pics would look the same here is an example: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5722.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5723.jpg once i had a template made i took it to the padding and then cut it out. i can't stress how nice it is to have a fresh razor blade, and since i grabbed a 10 pack of refills from HF i can swap them as soon as i like. i got about 80% of it done when i ran out of glue. btw, 3m 74 glue is excellent stuff. it comes in clear (like i bought) and orange. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5730.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5724.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5725.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5726.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5727.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5728.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5729.jpg i probably won't have any time to work on this tomorrow but hopefully after thursday and friday i should be done with the carpet. all that will be left (hehe all.. like it will be simple) will be to dye the new-to-me 993 seats and install them. |
nice work. i need to do mine...
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Please give us your driving impressions when you're all done.
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NineBall,
I'm sure you going to replace the door seals, but if you're not I would strongly recommend that you do. The old door seals get stiff and I found that when I replaced mine that it cut down a lot of wind noise. The door seals were $37.00/eac. from our host. I only glued mine back in at a couple of critical places, they have stayed seated just fine. One reason I didn't glue them in all around was that I'm still thinking about replacing my headliner. After the carpet job I had all the fun I needed for awhile... |
ya i already have new door seals but mine were in surprisingly good condition, almost excellent. there were no stiff points at all in either, and if i had not already had the replacements in my hands i would have reused them.
wind noise from the doors? in a targa with the top off 99% of the time there is nothing but wind noise.... from everywhere. |
check the glue label.
I do upholstery and some glue is what we call soft bond or foam glue never fully hardens. That means as soon as it gets warm it releases. We use it for bonding poly or foam when we need a non permanant bond. So just check the label to make sure it hardens. Usually permanant can glue will say high heat or heat resistant. Good luck!
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well i am by no means an expert rather using what others have reported success with. i have used super77 countless times with great results, but 90% of that would be bonding ozite to speaker cabinets and mixing consoles. i looked on the 3m site and this was all i could find for a description:
3M™ FoamFast 74 Spray Adhesive A fast tack adhesive available in an orange and clear formula. Its high content of adhesive solids provides high coverage. It quickly bonds many soft foams and fabrics. The non-dimpling glue line provides an ideal bond line for many upholstery applications. Its variable valve provides a precise spray pattern width of 1" to 4". Common Uses:
i called 3m directly and asked about doing work of this nature since the only choices i had locally were super77, super90, and general trim adhesive (requires 3 coats on each surface to be bonded!!). the rep told me the 74 was the best suited to my needs. as of now i have only glued down the pad but my next can of 74 is arriving tomorrow. can you, as a professional, see anything wrong with using this glue? |
only
usually any contact adhesive that only requires you to coat one surface or that stays very sticky hours after you spray it doesn't make a good permanent bond. I have seen people use foam glue on things such as a headliner. It sticks great until it gets hot. then it get sticky again and lets go. On anything that I want to stay stuck I always use are contact glue that you coat both surfaces let dry for a few minutes and then stick together. It is what's called a semi contact because unlike full contact (wood laminate) it can be repositioned if needed, but after it fully cures aprox. 24 hours it's a done deal. I have used 3M heat resistant glue before it says it works on headiners and carpets. The product you have might work fine but I would test it first.
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this does not fall into that category then as it requires a layer on each surface to be bonded. if it's results are anything like the super77 i have used in the past it will be a permanent bond, and it appears to be so. i'll know for certain later tonight when i get back to working on this and can test what i have done already.
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had a few hours tonight so back into the garage. finished putting down the padding first.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5743.jpghttp://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5744.jpg as you can see i did not cover the entire rear seat area with padding. the main reason was that the seat delete / sub enclosure will be covering all of that area already, so the padding would not really accomplish anything. time to finally start installing the carpet! if you are planning on doing this job yourself be sure to lay out a few pieces at a time before you glue anything down to see how they will overlap and how much extra you have to work with. it took some effort and a lot of head scratching to get all the edges to overlap properly. another tip that i found very helpful is to wear 2 or 3 sets of rubber gloves at all times. you can't avoid getting glue on them and being able to just take off the top layer and having a fresh set of hands to work with was so helpful. in some of the pics you will see some new wire (mostly getting in my way!). i used some extra 12g speaker wire i had for grounds for the new power seats and connected them to the ground for the jetronic underneath the box. i left them way longer than i needed to give me lots of room to run them hidden as need be. i started off by taping up the area around the door jam that i did not want to get any glue on. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5747.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5748.jpg the carpet set i bought had the kick panel and the top trim piece sewn together along one edge which made it a little easier to install. i sprayed some glue into the door seal mounting area and on the back of the vinyl edge of the carpet. tacked it up into place and then formed the vinyl around the jam. once that was dry i sprayed some glue on the lower (kick panel) piece and worked that down into place. repeated the same method on the other side as well. once both of those were in place i glued down the front edge of the door sill piece to hold the front into place. it was a little tricky trimming the vinyl edge to get it just right where the carpet meets the dash but a sharp razor, some good scissors, a lot of patience and small cutting got the job done. you can see the color difference between the kick panel and the door pocket carpeting. 27 years apparently turns brown carpet purple. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5749.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5750.jpg next i glued the piece that goes over the hump in the rear. again, in order to get it right i had to put the piece that goes over this (where your lower back would be if you were sitting in the rear seat) to see how much that covered and adjusted the hump piece accordingly. once i had it in place i taped up the left side in place and then glued down the right side. this is a good time to get a new razor blade to cut the hole for the seat belt bolt (i won't have any rear seats but if i ever sell it and the next owner wants the rear seats in all bolts and holes will be accessible). repeated the process for the other side. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5752.jpg that pic shows the passenger side quarter piece in place as well. that piece was started with the front most edge that ends up underneath the door sill piece. had to work it up into the cracks but it wasn't that hard. started out by just gluing the first 8 inches towards the back. this piece was glued down in 4 different sections slowly working my way from the front to the back. it also required some relief cuts to be made into the carpet and i gotta say this was the scariest part of the install. there is something that just doesn't feel right about taking a blade to a brand new piece of carpet but it had to be done. had 3 seat belt related items to cut out but none were very hard. the end result has the passenger side complete from front to back. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5750.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5751.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5752.jpg that is as far as i got tonight, and unfortunately i am almost out of glue again. i hate to do it but i think i am going to have to glue down the remaining 3 pieces with super77 since i am out of 74 and it takes 3 days to get here (i want to dirve it this weekend to a couple parties!). |
had the day off but got a late start. i live in a condo and a few of my neighbors are older to say the least, so i take care of about 6 cars in my association for things like oil changes, brakes, tire rotations, etc. i had promised one of them i would do an oil change and rotation at 10 this morning so an hour later (and a nice plate of freshly baked cookies) i got started.
first thing was to try to find some more glue. i called 3m and asked about using super77 or 90 but was told neither was good for my application as they are only rated to 105 degrees, at which point they become mush and lose all their stickiness. looked on their site for a local supplier, 27 calls later i found an ace hardware that said they had the 74 in stock. the only catch was that it was about 35 mins away, but an hour of driving beats the hell out of waiting for a tuesday delivery with 2 parties to go to this weekend so off i went. got all the way down there to find the woman who answered my call, even after saying she checked, lied and they only had 77 and 90 like everyone else. i was about to say f-it and go ride the bike but then i pulled out the iphone, googled "auto upholstery" and found a place about 10 mins from where i was. called the guy, explained my morning and asked if they sold supplies. he said they were not a retailer and bought most of their stuff in bulk but he did have half a can of some high temp fabric adhesive that would fit me needs. drove over, talked for a min and they guy gave it to me for free! no kidding. i asked him a few questions about dying my seats and after a nice discussion i realized that this job was a little more than i wanted to attempt, especially on my first try. if they were like my stock seats, meaning no inserts, i would have done it but since i only get one shot i have decided to let that shop do it for me. he quoted me $200 as i was supplying everything, and for the piece of mind the price is right. on to the carpet.... almost everything is done now (still have to do the door pockets but they can wait til monday or tuesday) and it came out great, with one minor exception. in my excitement as i drew nearer to the end i completely forgot to put the factory sound pad back on the seat bottoms before i glued in the carpet, so it will not be going back in. i guess overall it is a good thing when you add the weight of the rubber pad with the asphalt sheeting i removed it just about evens out the added weight from the rear seat delete / enclosure and speakers. the damplifier pro and padding weighed in at right about 19lbs so that was not a big concern either. i have some damplifier pro down, some padding over that and the enclosure so it should be just as good at blocking noise as the factory piece was alone. i also put in the new door seals and a set of rennline pedals and dead pedal. everything is glued into place but the center tunnel piece as i plan on installing a factory short shift kit sometime next week and wanted to make life easier. the jbl subs are pretty damn amazing for a pair of 8 inchers - THANKS TODD!!! here is the finished product: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5754.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5755.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5756.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5759.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5760.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5758.jpg i had some custom mats made as well, and while they are a lighter shade of brown they will only be used for shows and such, not regular driving, so i can live with it. once the seats are back in it will separate the front from the back and it will look a lot better. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5761.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_5762.jpg now i can actually enjoy the car for the summer. all the engine work was done over the winter and the interior is now complete. next winter i plan on new paint and then (i think) i will be done, but we all know how that goes.... |
Wow! Looks great!! I'd love to hear what you think of the sound dampening alone (not with stereo).
Cheers, - CraigD |
well, like i have said i have a targa, so trying to control the sounds levels is like trying to make a 6 year old kid sit still for an hour - the chances of it happening are slim. the outside needs a wash badly so i will pop the top on tomorrow and report back my findings tomorrow afternoon but i am not really expecting a lot. my main goal was just to do what i could to quiet it down and be happy with the results no matter what they were. i can tell you that with the audio system 90% tuned now (still need to dial in the time alignment) i won't be hearing much road noise at all :)
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nineball, that turned out great...nice work! I'll bet it sounds good in there.
Maybe someday I'll upgrade my AM radio from glorious mono to 2 speakers... |
Looks fantastic! Glad the subs worked out, Can't wait to hear it!
--todd |
That carpet looks great!
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I have watched your project closley and you have got me motivated to do mine!!! |
i got the carpet from a place called world upholstery in california (if you call ask for janet and tell her kris with the 911 sent you). i went with domestic and it was $380 for the entire set, custom mats were ~$150 or so with the logo and i bought 3 aerosol cans of seat dye as well. there were a few other suppliers out there but i needed to have the custom seat dye made for the new seats and i figured one stop shopping would yield me the closest match. they do not make the custom mats themselves but rather buy from another company, which explains the color difference. the mats are very high quality though, actually better than the carpet set is.
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I have a set of the AppBiz domestic needle punch carpet for my car sitting in a box, but don't know if I will install them as I'm not quite pleased with the quality. The AppBiz carpets have a cloth type binding instead of vinyl like yours and the carpet itself seems quite light weight and flimsy! I sure do like the looks of yours installed, but how would you compare and contrast them to real Pcar Sliverknit? Is the weight dramatically less, and are they considerably thinner than Sliverknit? I guess what I'm asking is, given all the work and expense you went to, are you pleased that you choose domestic punch over real Sliverknit for the $3-400 savings ? Grant |
i really could not tell you as i have no experience with the sliverknit carpeting, but i can say i am happy with what i have. my car is not a show car, it is a toy, so i did not see the need to spend a few hundred more for the other version when the domestic would do what i need - be clean and cover the floor. if you call world upholstery they will send out samples to you. i had them sent for my vinyl and the carpet.
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I guess what I meant to say was, how would you compare your new carpet to the original factory carpet that was in your car, as far as density and weight. All the mid '70s on used Sliverknit from the factory. You didn't specify the year of your car, but I'm assuming mid '70s. I will call for some samples. Thanks, Grant |
nope, mine is an 83SC. the new carpet is thicker and feels better than the original but i don't think it is a fair comparison. that carpet is 25+ years old and has been used for over 100k miles. this is probably the best shot i have of the old stuff.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...o/100_4889.jpg |
Yeah, the old carpet in your pics is indeed Sliverknit. Same stuff I have in my '80SC!
If your new carpet from World feels thicker and better than your old stuff, then I think my decision has been made! I'll call them tomorrow for some samples, but looks like just what I've been looking for. Thanks for the trouble and the pics! Grant |
well, a minor update but mostly a rant of sorts...
the upholstery shop needed more dye to finish the seats so i placed the order with world upholstery last wednesday at 9am their time. i just got an email now telling me the item will be shipped out tomorrow and should arrive a little more than 2 weeks after i placed the order. after a call to them it turns out they just order the dye from someone else, mark it up and then sell it to the consumer. they had no excuses nor did they even attempt to make an offer of something to make me happy. don't know if i said it or not but they also screwed up the mats i ordered and i had to send them back to get the correct ones. i will not be ordering anything from them in the future and suggest anyone reading this takes the same approach. it's a shame too, because they are the supplier (or so they say) for all the carpet kits that pelican sells. once the seats are done and installed i'll post some pics of the finished product but that is at least 2 weeks away for me now. |
i finally got the seats back. it took a couple months but it was well worth the wait. the dye company had originally told me it would take 3 aerosol cans to dye the seats but the upholstery shop used those and then some. had to order 3 more cans and it is a 2 week wait from the day i order to delivery, but i ended up needing half of a 7th can. they are done and will be going in by the weekend if not sooner. they look like brand new seats!
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/IMG_0364.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/IMG_0365.jpg the shop even dyed the seat back release things http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/IMG_0366.jpg this is what the seats looked like when i got them. sorry for the small pics but they are all i could from from the fs thread. http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...1270651805.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...1270651821.jpg |
after going through an ordeal and a half with the seats (here) they are finally installed. the only item left is to finish recovering the passenger side door pocket and reinstall it. still waiting on the fire extinguisher to arrive from our host but that is secondary.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_7257.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_7258.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_7259.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_7256.jpg http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...r/100_7255.jpg |
How has the 3M adhesive held up?
Kris,
How has your carpet adhesive held up so far? I'm about to lay down square-weave carpet in our 1968 911 and just ordered three cans of 3M foam model 74 adhesive and would appreciate your feedback first. Besides, I wanted to revive this interesting thread! Thanks, Andy |
thanks andy. yes the super 74 has held up without any problems at all. i did run out again with only the door pockets to go, so i tried to use the super 77 and it was a waste of time as it did not hold the vinyl or the carpeting down once the temps got high inside the cabin. i had to order more 74 and redo the door pockets.
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