I hate timelines... need help

[Leland Pate]

Oops... did I say hate?... I meant "Strongly dislike".

Well guys, it looks like they're sending us home around the middle of Feburary. If it goes down like that, I will have 3 months to prepare my car for the Bogus Basin Hill Climb.

There are certain things that I absolutely MUST do before I can even enter it!
First is new tires... I can do that as soon as I get home.
Second is to fix the bad leak from the nose bearing and minor one at the flywheel main seal. To do that the motor must come back out. And when that motor comes out, it isn't going back in until the gearbox is rebuilt!
I have decided to do the rebuild of the transaxle myself. "DIY-Lee syndrome".
And before I run it up the hill, I really need to do something about my crushed oil lines under the rocker panel.

Ok, so these are the three musts.
Tires are easy; the rest...well I need help.

Gearbox
I figure as a minimum, the 1st and 2nd synchro rings and hubs are shot. As far as the sliders are concerned, 1st might be toast...I'll just have to wait and see first hand.
From what I have been able to research, I'm thinking about a "quick, teardown, replace worn stuff and put back together op".
I don't think there is any reason to replace all the bearings if they aren't bad so far. Any advice would be appreciated.

As far as the oil cooler and lines, I know there are a hundred different opinions and options out there.
Like I said, I need to replace the hard oil lines from under the rocker. Places like Parts heaven want an arm and a leg for these things. I saw a guy at the hill climb in 2000 who had soft rubber oil lines installed instead of the factory hard lines.
I have been looking for a place that can sell me a pair of precut lengths with the proper fittings to adapt to the aux. thermostat and a set of "whatever size" fittings to adapt to an aftermarket cooler like Mocal. I am confident that I can make my own brackets to mount the cooler. My questions are: does anyone know a good place that handles stuff like this and is knowledgable about P-cars?
Where can I find the fitting sizes for the aux. thermostat?
What size oil cooler do most people think is nessecary for a 911? How many rows? What ID? Dimentions?
What am I forgetting?
I think I can do this... I just hope I can come up with a solution before the end of May!

[beepbeep]

I'm gonna let ordinary plumber do 22mm pipes between thermostat and front oil-cooler. We are going to cut original tubing near thermostat/cooler and use ordinary plumbing joints between.

Hint: do not try to detach pipes from thermostat...it's not going to happend. If you want to change pipes with original ones your thermostat has to go too!

I saw people weld a wrench to thermostat-nut and do all kinds of crazy things, to no avail. Those coppar nuts molecules diffuse into each other and can be seen as one piece after few years.

Otherwise, pneumatic hoses work well...but copper tubes dissipate heat better.

[Ted Stringer]

First you have to get someone to ship the car to you. Unless you are comming home soon!!!!

Stay safe

[Superman]

Well poop. If you're removing the engine to fix the leaking front seal, then it sounds like you plan a second disassembly. Ah well, you've done it before.

As I've said before (and JW has not disagreed, though he should if Superman is all wet again) replacing synchro parts in a tranny is pretty straightforward and not nearly the same kind of project as an engine rebuild. Although experience would help greatly, this is not a hard project if you have the right tools.

Perhaps you could repair the crushed hard lines once you have them off. The soft portion of these lines can be replaced using the old hard ends. A local hydraulic hose repair place can do this for you at far less cost than factory replacement parts.

[cds72911]

BAT auto has some good looking mocal oil cooler kits with braided aeroquip lines to replace your stock lines. The kits are available with thermostats. http://www.batinc.net/main.htm . Never used them, but their prices seem fair and they have a good catalog of porsche specific info.

Charlie

[Leland Pate]

Thanks for the tips guys.

Jim, I need to pull the engine to get to the main seal behind the flywheel. I have a feeling that i didn't seat the main seal correctly because there is a small leak coming from the bottom of the bellhousing. As far as the nose bearing leak (big one) I am going to use some of that "Pig putty" my roommate uses on F-15 fuel systems. He really thinks it will work like a champ. He said it sticks to metal very well, resists petol. products, holds up well to high temp and high pressure. It never really gets real hard... Sort of rubbery.
But I figure if I "have" to remove the engine to get behind the flywheel, I may as well rebuild the gearbox while I'm at it.

I emailed a pelicaneer last night who still has a Mocal fender mounted oil cooler f/s.
I'd like to buy a set of braided oil lines from Mocal and maybe even a new thermostat if it is indeed impossible to seperate the old fittings.
It is driving me nuts that BAT has a web page for mocal oil coolers, but no friggin' email address!

Ted, I asked my CO if he'd be kind enough to ship my car to me as i am getting tired of driving Armored HMMWVs everywhere. He just stared at me...

[Superman]

Leland, I often have less than excellent luck with rear main seals. Half of those I've installed leaked. A long while ago there was a post mentioning a brown seal. The poster insisted that only the brown seal would work reliably.

I like your idea of an oil cooler. I probably will want one desperately as soon as I begin tracking this car. Before you go and buy a new thermostat, see if you can separate the lines from the old one. Everybody says it's impossible. Doesn't that make you want to do it? If you break it, buy a new one.

[speeder]

Leland, what kind of cooler do you have now, stock trombone? Check your e-mail- new info there from me. Best solution for long tubes is stock if you can find some for reasonable $; maybe a parts car on Pelican board? Reason is that they are brass or copper,(not sure which), and conduct a lot of heat. In other words, they are an integral part of oil cooling system, especially if they are clean/ not caked with mud. My car runs cooler than Fonzie w/ carrera unit in fender, and it was overheating and leaking on the brakes w/ trombone.

As for tires, best tire/$ is Dunlop IMO. Tirerack.com has good prices on 'em and will drop-ship to wherever you want. Cheap shipping and no tax. I have them on my SC and they are excellent- wear slow and pretty sticky. Great street tires- haven't had them on a track yet, but plenty of canyons.

[Leland Pate]

jim, I'll do a search on the Brown seal. (although I think my seal was brown).

Speeder, yes, I got your email, thanks. I will write you back.

Right now it is set up as a stock SC with trombone cooler. I have tried before to find a replacement hard line set and have been pretty disapointed. Even Partsheaven only wanted to sell me new lines. $$OUCH$$

Rattlsnak says he still has a Mocal cooler with fan that he is willing to sell. I found a place on the net that sells fender brackets and oil lines for mocal coolers so we'll see what happens with that.

Ideally I'd like to end up with a mocal cooler, fan and new rocker lines... most likely soft SS braided types. I might have to buy a new aux. thermostat if mine refuses to play nice. The mocal thermostat lists for $100 which isn't bad. My only worry is whether or not it will adapt easily to the fixed oil lines coming from the engine or not.
I can fabricate my own rock guard or just buy a Carrera rock guard from Pelican.
And I will most likely install a cooler scoop and notch my fender... or make some fancy setup to force air into the cooler like Clark Griswald.

Btw, I now have a set of black leather late model highback seats being shipped to my house back home.
Finally, I can stop looking at those tattered sport seats.

God I hope I can get all this done before may.

[cary]

Leland before you jump on the AeroQuip project.
You need to do the math.
The lines a fairly cheap ( $8 a foot ) . But the fittings kill you. The Aeroquip reusables ( way cool ) are about $35 each needing 4.
But the killer is the adapters to go to the Porsche thermostat. $50 each. The only place I could find them, with Steve Weiners help. Was Pegasus racing. 30mm 1.0 pitch thread.
So the $500 for the brass ones might be close. Plus you have better heat dissipation. But they don't look as cool.... And they can be crushed again.
I'm happy that I did mine with Aeroquip. Because just about every other car has a crushed or dented oil line right behind the front wheel at the radius. Which dorks up the oil flow. And I increased the oil line size to AN-16 which helps even the score.
Oil cooler wise. I have a Terbatrol. Which works better than the trombone. But I'm saving my lunch money for a B & B.

Willing to come down and help with the gear box rebuild if you need some encouragement and a beer runner.

[Leland Pate]

Hey guys, this thread has been great! Lots of good info.

Has anyone had luck with repairing the old hard lines? either pulling the dents out of just cutting off the damaged section and welding a slightly bigger section over the old line?

Just exploring options...

Cary, you make a good point about the $50 dollar fittings.
A new aux. thermostat from Mocal only costs $100 so it might actually be better to replace the old thermostat than to just buy adapter fittings.

Rattlsnak has the cooler a fan and the short flexable lines.
I can either make or buy the brackets from racerswholesale. And if Rattlsnak doesn't have the fan wiring, relays and thermostat, I can pick them up as well.

Hey Cary, you serious about helping me with that gearbox?
That'd be awesome to have a guiding light... even if he was aslo holding a "Bud light".

More later,...

[cary]

Yes. I'm, serious about coming down to help. Never done it myself. But two heads are always better than one.

And Santa's bringing me a complete 911 Porsche service manual set thru 1988, for Christmas. Pictures !!!!

[Leland Pate]

Well then I'm going to hold you to it. I wonder if they allow beer in the Hobby shop!?

I think I am going to start ordering replacement items for the gearbox even before I get home. Like a pair of 1st and 2nd sychro rings and hubs, rebuild gasket kit, and whatever else people suggest replacing out of good measure. I will have to wait to get it all apart to see what the condition of the sliders and forks are.

Anyone have anything else in mind that I should replace in the 915?

[Jim Sims]

Leland, Using a MAPP gas torch (just like a simple propane torch but with the hotter burning MAPP gas mixture), some home made wood forms and my big bench vise I reshaped several somewhat flattened spots plus straightened sections of a damaged oil line. The line appeared to have a combination of jack, accident and shipping damage. A second line had a "twist collapse" in an area of of two closely spaced bends. This appeared hopeless to properly repair so I just replaced it. Although, after seeing the shape of the new OEM line I might have been able to salvage this line too. The technique is to the heat the damaged sections of the line until they're cherry red in the vicinity of the damage. This anneals the brass so it can be reshaped without cracking plus makes forming easier if its done while the brass is hot. I made two wood blocks with matching rounded bottom grooves (drill a hole in a block and saw it axially) and put the blocks between the vise jaws. The annealed and still hot tubing was placed so that the long dimension of the flattened spot (major axis of the cross-section ellipse for you geometry types) was contacted by the block grooves first; then the vice and block were closed on the tubing forcing it back into a more rounded shape. I had a second person helping handle this long piece of hot line during this reshaping. When done reshaping, we sanded off the burnt paint, rinsed the inside of the line out with mineral spirits several times and then did a final rinse with ethanol. Then blew it dry and repainted the outside of the lline black. It looks pretty good and essentially all of the flow cross-section has been restored. Jim

[cary]

Just went and got the Bentley. Looks like we'll need to borrow some tools. Show's 4 on the shifter part and 6 on the gear part. Some we maybe able to improvise.

Hopefully some one will enlighten us.

[Leland Pate]

Cary, I think Warren said he would be kind enough to let us borrow his gearbox tools.
I only wish i could offer you a place to sleep. Because of this whole WTC/War on Terror, me and my roomates weren't able to move into the 4 bedroom house we had planned on.
So we are stuck in the crampt apartment for another x months.

I have made a list of projects that either must be done or really should be done before the end of May.


The first order of business will be to drop the engine, seperate the gearbox, fix the leaks at the nose bearing and flywheel.

Then I (we) can start to tear down the gearbox. Trow in new synchro rings, hub, maybe a slider or two and button it back up.
Then I can perform another valve adjustment.

Now would be a good time to install the new oil cooler. I have access to a welder in the base hobby shop to attach the brackets.

Once the motor is back in the car.... again I can set the ignition timing, have a mechanic set the CO mixture and install the new set of ignition wires.

Hopefully at this point I will have a car that shifts and does not leak oil anymore.

Next is a set of new rubber all round.

Then I can install my new seats and carpet.

This should get me ready for Bogus in May.

When I pull the motor this time... it is coming out with the gearbox attached... andf I'm not using a tranny jack!!!!

[82SC]

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22087

I was going to have him split up the pair, but if your needs seem more urgent...if it works out that we each need one that would be cool, but if not...I won't complain if you take them...my 930 brake project is sucking enough out of me...

need to find fuchs...hmmm...if you see a cheap pair over in desert-land pick them up for me...I will pay you back....

[Jack Olsen]

Are you sure your crushed lines aren't repairable? It sure would save a lot of work to not to have to mess with the thermostat connections.

Check this link.

[Leland Pate]

82SC, that's really nice of you to offer, but I would need both and you found them first. It's only fair that you get what you need.

I'll definately be keeping my eye ouf for a nice pair of Fuchs over here.

Jack, I don't think it is within my skill level to repair the lines. one of them is so flat, it is almost flat. And because the dent is concave so to speak, past the radius of the line, i don't think it is possible to squeeze it back into shape. Welding a replacement section on might work, but is again out of my level. Plus, to weld or otherwise repair it, the lines will have to come off anyway.

If I could find a good used set, I'd go for it. But then I get concerned about what condition the motor of the car it came off of was. If the parts car spun abearing, I definately wouldn't want to use oil lines from it. It is still an option though.
Right now, I think it would be easier to buy aftermarket lines... even if they are slightly less effective than the brass.

hmmm...
I don't know just yet what would be best...


Thanks for all the imput though!

[davis911s]

Leland time for me chime in. I did the QUICK FIX that Jack Olsen linked you to. I used copper pipe and soldered in the section that was crushed. I ran 3 tanks of fuel through it and no problems yet. BUT I would not do it if you are going to run a cooler etc (Like Warren mentioned.) This was a quick fix to get my car running cooler for a short term fix.

For that it has worked well.

Shawn