More suspension questions

[Blackdimonds]

I have searched the previous post and didn't find what I need.

I'm getting ready to do a suspension upgrade on my 2450 lbs 81 SC. I will be doing 23mm front torsion bars/29mm rears will all new polygraphite bushings. I will be doing new sways front and rear (22mm - 27mm not sure yet) I also need to do something on the shocks. I have a budget of $2000 for everything with a $190 bill at the end for alignment and corner balancing. What would you do?

1) Weltmeister Torsion bars or Glen Saunders bars ($420 Vs. $660)

2) Weltmeister/AJUSA sway bars or Smart racing sway bars ($700 Vs. $1200)

3) New front Bilstein Sports/leave the new rear Bilstien HD or send in all my Bilstein HDs to be re valved ($260 Vs. $350)

Thanks in advance,

[pbs911]

I have a budget of $2000 for everything with a $190 bill at the end for alignment and corner balancing. What would you do?

1) Weltmeister Torsion ($420 )

2) Smart racing sway bars ($1200)

Change 3) to New Bilstein HD ($220)

$1,840.00 + poly bushings

[marcesq]

BD:

Glen Sanders bars are recommened by Bruce Anderson, so before you decide if price is the issue, contact DART Auto @ 303-296-1188 (www.dartauto.com). Don't worry that they are a used parts place as they sell new stuff as well.

They are very good to work with and a set of 21 mm hollow bars were 275 . . . yes 275

On the bushings, make sure you through in some lube to cut down on possible squeaking.

On the torsion bars, I assume that the car will be on the track given the size choosen, another reason to go with the Sanders bar.

Good luck.

[SRT356/911]

Suggest the Sway-a way torsion bars and the Smart Swaybars.

Torsions of 22/30 f/r.

27's for the sways.

[Jack Olsen]

23/29 seems a weird torsion setup for a car that's 2450 pounds. If you're streeting it, it's going to be uncomfortable (and not very effective, on rough roads). If you're tracking it, then I'd go with 22/31 or even 32 rear bars.

And if you do go that stiff, get the Bilsteins revalved in the back.

I'd shoot an email to William Knight, who gave me a lot of good advice and has great prices on everything you're looking for:

knightrace911@earthlink.net

Of course, don't forget Pelican, either. If it weren't for them, you wouldn't be getting any money-saving advice here at all.

[ChrisBennet]

Like Jack said, that's an odd combination of torsion bar sizes.
The stock bars are 18.8/24.1 so 23/29 would would be 2.24X stiffer in front and only 2.09X stiffer in the rear. This would only exacerbate the 911's natural tendency to understeer/plow. For comparison purposes, Jack's 22/31 yields 1.83X front and 2.73X rear.
-Chris

[Blackdimonds]

Sorry guys, I meant 22mm front/28mm rear. I found that Rennsport systems has good prices (same as dart!) and Steve is very good to work with. My problem is I don't have the big $ that it takes to get the best available parts on everything. I like getting feedback from all you guys because I get different outlooks on things. If I had the money I would do Glen Saunder tbars with Smart Racing sways, and JRZ shocks and struts. I just can't justify the cost, so I need to figure out what parts are most important. Keep the ideas coming. What do you think about doing the tbars and shocks this year, and do the sways later. Would this cause any problems? Would the setup be compromissed by doing it this way?

[SRT356/911]

You are going to Time Trial or race this car, correct?
If you are doing it just for street use, I would strongly recommend that you ride in a car that has been similarly set up before you go too much further. Unless of course you like a very stiff suspension and you will not have anyone else who likes a more real world softer ride. If you are to be the principal occupant and will not have anyone else talking in your ear, and are going to use the car in sporting events, then go for it.

[Jack Olsen]

Well, speaking as a guy with the Sander engineering bars, I'd have to say skimp on them. I mean, it's a bar, built to certain specs, and it functions -- very simply -- as a spring. Aside from installation issues, could there possibly be a discernable difference between two brands of torsion bars, once they're installed? Is there a guy here who could take a drive in the same car, once with Sander bars and once with Weltmeisters -- both with the same spring rate -- and tell a difference? I mean... it's a spring.

If I'm wrong about this, I'm all ears. It could be that there's an important difference I just don't know.

I have the AJ-USA/Weltmeister front/rear sways, and I think I'll eventually change to a better bar, at least in back. Some of the better bars are easier to adjust, and have better locations for hardware that makes them less likely to be damaged in an off-road incident.

In fact, if you want a used rear Weltmeister bar at a good price, you can buy mine and use it until you decide it's worthwhile to spend big money on the good stuff.

[89911]

22/28mm bars are what I have and I feel is correct for high performance street use in these cars. We are installing 23/31 hollow bars in my brothers track car and I am waiting to ride in his before commiting to these in mine. I just installed SmartRacing 27 bars after having my mounting points reinforced:
I originally had AJUSA brand 22mm sway bars, but I kept braking the hardware (and my car!) After the reinforcements, I went with something considerable beefier. My advice is to do it right the first time. "A wise man cries only once!"
I have Bilstein sports also. I spoke to Craig Watkins when I bought these bars and he suggested that any shock that is used with stiffer torsion bars be revalved, including mine. Torsion bars are torsion bars as far as I'm concerned. Sway-A-Way is the the same as Weltmeister and from checking out vendors is almost the only one sold.

[Blackdimonds]

89 911, how much was it to re valve your shocks? Who did them? Did you send the whole front strut, or did you take the insert out of the strut and send it in?

What reinforcing did you do? Weld new pieces on, or reinforce what was there?

What do you think about doing the Tbars and shocks this year and keeping my stock sways for now? Then next year do the sways?

Thanks,

[Clark Griswald]

The only benefit I could see for one brand of (otherwise equal) tbars over another is if they could deliver better consistancy of spring rate from bar to bar. Tbar spring rate should be closely matched in pairs to deliver consistant handling characteristics.

Some variation will always exist. Perhaps a "quality" bar is more consistant, or takes the extra step of testing actual spring rate and selecting matched pairs.

Talking theory here because I don't have any information indicating one brand is any more or less consistant than another.

FWIW, I bought cheap bars.