Fire Extinguishers?

[sessa]

After reading some of the recent posts on the Motor Meister thread I was curious as to what type of extinguisher is best and where people put them for easy access should a fire happen. I have been carrying a chemical one in the trunk but I think that it would be hard to reach in an emergency.

[Superman]

First, the trunk is not the place for this device. It needs to be in a location you can reach while you are still bucked in. I mounted an aluminum plate on the passenger side of the tunnel, next to the console, and the extinguisher is mounted to that.

My extinguisher is Halon. Halon does not leave residue and it does not harm stuff, like paint, rubber, etc. It is used extensively in marine applications, largely because of the enclosed quarters where it might be used. Apparently, it is much better to be in a room filled with Halon than in a room filled with dry chemical.

That being said, dry chemical is about twice as effective as Halon at extinguishing fires. And much cheaper.

[emcon5]

I made a fire extinguisher mount out of some sheet aluminum that mounts in front of the driver seat. Essentially all I did was bend the sheet 90 deg, so one side fit between the seat rails and mounts, and the other went straight down to within about 1/2" of the floor mat.

This does double duty, as it also keeps any crap I have behind the seat from ending up under the pedals under heavy breaking. It is hard to stop with a quart of Mobile-1 under the pedal.

The only problem is, the cheap mount broke on my extenguisher (the plastic one that came with it, not my metal one), and I haven't been able to find a suitable replacement as of yet.

Halon is nice, but I am a dry-chemical kind of guy. I figure if my car catches fire, cleaning up the mess from the powder will not be high up on my problem list.

Tom

Edit: Superman, I think the reason Halon is used on boats is that because it displaces oxygen, all you need to do is flood the compartment with Halon and the fire will suffocate. Dry chem doesn't work that way.

[RoninLB]

Halon works best it enclosed space. Dry chem is better on eng fires with lid open, IMO. I would make sure engine is not running with dry chem.

[mwbaum]

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56338

so dry chemical is a gas not a solid?

EDIT: or liquid?

[emcon5]

Originally posted by Porsche911T
so dry chemical is a gas not a solid?

EDIT: or liquid?

It is a powder. It is some messy crap, yellowish dust everywhere.

Tom

[makaio]

Dry Chemichal extinguishers are usually filled with Sodium Bicarbonate. Much like a yellow baking soda.

[Jack Olsen]

Probably couldn't hurt to carry one of each. If you get to the end of your Halon one, and there's still too much oxygen getting to the blaze, then I'm sure a little chemical residue would be the least of your worries. Maybe the dry chem one could go in the trunk.

[sessa]

Superman, emcon5 do you guys have any pictures of your mounts?, the link to the halon extinguisher shows they come in chrome, do the dry chemical have a chrome finish???

[RoninLB]

A nice on board Halon 1211 sys. w/3 discharges [eng, lugg comp, cabin ] is not expensive and very effective, IMHO. I think it will be priority as I get closer to carb install. My door speakers cost $400, I could spend that much for protection and peace of mind. My 2 1/2 lb Halon is some what OK for local rides. On big rides I carry an extra 5 lbs. Halon bottle. But again, dry chemical for the non experienced fire fighter may be a good idea. I have a marine battery terminal that uses a wing nut to quickly disconnect electrical sys., which can be very important. Again, Halon is most effective in enclosed spaces. If you are using Halon a trip to local FD or appointment with FD training instructor for an education my not just save your 911 but also teach you how to prevent injuring yourself. The fire devil can be a mean mother f@!~*?

[JAE]

I'm not convinced that halon is effective for cars. You certainly don't want to spray it in an enclosed passenger compartment as it would have the same effect on you as the fire. The engine compartment does not seem to be enough of an enclosed space for the halon to displace oxygen effectively. Any breeze would almost instantly replenish oxygen. Chemical extinguishers are pretty foolproof.

I have mine mounted to the carpeted area below the rear driver side "passenger" seat

Joe
'80 SC Targa

[ChrisBennet]

OG Racing has 2.5 lb halon for $145 (chrome) I think. I suggest gettng the bracket with two straps. When I ordered an extinguisher and 2 strap bracket they offered to just subsitute the bracket for no charge saving me $10. -Chris

[campbellcj]

In my 911, I have a chrome Amerex 2.5lb Halon bottle in a Brey-Krause seat-base bracket. In the 914 I have a red 2.5 Halon bolted into the tray area between the seats. That location is great in the 914 as it is easily reachable by either driver or passenger while fully belted in (w/ 5-points).

Knock on wood they will remain 'decoration' and never see any action.

Had a close call with the 914 a while ago when an injector cracked. It was pumping gas onto the engine tin -- right above the exhaust system. For some reason (angels?) I happened to pop the lid that morning before firing it up, and I spotted the leak. Scary.

My next p-car car will have a full multi-nozzle fire system...

[emcon5]

Originally posted by sessa
Superman, emcon5 do you guys have any pictures of your mounts?,

I don't have a pic of it, and there really isn't anything to see right now. Just an unfinished aluminum plate from the seat rails to the floor. Like I said, the cheap plastic mount that came with the extenguisher broke, and I haven't found a replacement that will work yet.

Tom

[jluetjen]

A couple of thoughts on Halon, Dry Chemical and now foam.

1) Halon has been de rigor safety equipment for years in the SCCA, IMSA and other racing organizations. In the SCCA they require at a minimum a nozzle in the drivers compartment and a second either in the engine compartmant or near the fuel cell. (I put them in both!) Halon is now being replace by AFFF or equivalent surfactant foam material (i.e. SPA Lite, ZERO 2000, Coldfire 302) because Halon can no longer be produced. It went out of production because of the damage that it causes to the Ozone Layer. The bottom line is that it will be getting harder to buy halon in the future. Also be aware that you can get a frost burn from halon if you are in the way of the nozzle from the sudden decompression of the gas.

2) If you use one of the AFFF materials, you will need to make sure that you have the correct nozzles and plumbing. It is different then the requirements for Halon.

3) While dry chemical is a drag to clean up, I guess it does well on liquid fires because it does stick to stuff, smother the fire and help to prevent it from restarting. While Halon is great for knocking down a fire, it can reignight after the Halon has dispersed.

Me; I have a 5lb dry chemical extinguisher on the floor behind the passenger seat. No one ever sits back there anyhow.

[cstreit]

Had a buddy that worked for a fire prevention joint. He told me that Dry Chem fire extinguishers often cause secondary fires. THe chemical in some is caustic, can eventually eat away wire insulation or make it brittle causing future shorts.

Halon is great. (Though many regs require larger Halon bottles if you use it)

[makaio]

1. Emcon5, I'm glad you didn't have to use your Halon extinguisher on a fuel fire, because they are not very effective on misting fuel on fire. Unless you have a very large bottle.

2. When I was getting my BS degree in fire science, I had to do a research paper. I did it on Halon, and what I found is, there has never been any proof that halon is detrimental to the Ozone layer. But the patent was expiring on it. I know, that's not what they tell you, but I spoke to many Extinguisher vendors on the subject.

3. Halon is a great extinguishing agent, but if you really want to save your car, Dry Chemical is the way to go!(even though it is messy) Aqueous Film Forming Foam (AFFF) is a good agent as well, but because it has water in it, it conducts electricity, and could be very hazardous.

4. Chris, No disrespect to your buddy, but BS. I have used dry-chemical extinguishers many times, on everything from kitchen fires, to large fuel fires. Never seen them contribute to a secondary fire! The only thing common dry-chemical extinguisher are not effective on is combustible metals, such as magnesium or titanium.

[emcon5]

Originally posted by makaio
1. Emcon5, I'm glad you didn't have to use your Halon extinguisher on a fuel fire, because they are not very effective on misting fuel on fire. Unless you have a very large bottle.

Not me, like I said, I am a dry chemical guy. I am glad I haven't had to use any extenguisher on any fire. I haven't had to fight a fire since damage control training in Navy boot camp, and that is the way I like it.

But if I did, gimme a 3" hose with a few guys helping me hold it every time.

Tom

You all seem to have fire extinglishers in your Porsches. Does this mean Porsches catch fire often? What about the late 60s T carbs. Where those clean or did they spit fuel all over?

What I mean to say was Is halon a gas? liquid? or silid? and I know what dry chem looks like.

Speaking of fireextinglishers, kids in my school are getting very smart its scary. Recently we had a fire in the bathroom, but the kids locked up every fireextinglisher in the school. ( I can't believe no one noticed this) So the fire got preaty big but the firefighters put it out.