Faulty Sachs Pressure Plate - any one ever had this before?

[Kroggers]

OK, I am not an expert here and it was not me undertaking the job, but it looks like the Pressure Plate that I got in the Sachs Power Clutch kit from Timmins along with the 3.6 transplant kit is faulty!

I asked the specialist that is rebuilding my 915 to also install the Throw Out bearing into the Pressure Plate for me at the same time, as I did not have the time or willingness to do it.

The process they use is to secure the one end of the plate to the bench using a bolt that goes threw the plate and a hole in the bench, and then using a clamp push the other end down with the bearing in the correct position so that they get the tension to put all the stuff on.

Whilst doing this half the springs (that is what we call the metal things that flow into the middle of the pressure plate) flipped the wrong way and did not want to return to their natural position

Anyone else seen this happen before?

[Carrerax]

Picture? I also just bought the same PP and I can post a pic for comparison later today.

[peon77]

Is it a real sachs? It could be a knock off from china. There are lots of them out there for sale at places like ebay.

[john walker's workshop]

that's a one piece diaphram spring. it apparently broke. look around the outside for a crack. as for assembling the t/o bearing to the p/plate, you just lay the p/plate onto the bearing, push down with the sides of your palms and install the clip with your fingers. takes maybe a minute. no need for any hold-down contraption.

[burgundyben]

Paul

Thanks for the phone call, it sounds like you had the exact same problem as me and it broke in the exact same way.

That cast aliminium clutch cover is super fragile, in my opinion the material around the pins that locate the straps is far too thin and fragile. I came to the conclusion that the clutch design is not fit for purpose, I'm not at all surprised to hear, as you say, that Sachs have discontinued the ali version.

Not only have I been a proffessional manufacturing engineer in industry for 15 years but I've been fixing cars for 20 years. I've fitted endless clutches and never damaged one like happened to my Sachs clutch. I think its a combination of poor casting quality and a design that is inherently weak. I cant prove it but I am sure that it was damaged out of the box.

There is no doubt in my mind that your supplier should refund you the money.

Ben

[Kroggers]

Thank you Ben, it is good to know that this is not the first time it has happened...

I went up there this morning to collect the rebuilt transmission, damaged pressure plate and get a demo on how they do the installation of the Throw Out Bearing on my new kit that I have had to purchase due to the first one is now dead

I took some pictures to show how they do the installation.

One side is secured (not tightly) to the workbench with a bolt and screw threw a hole in the bench.


Then a clamp is used on the other end to gently pressure the plate down onto the bearing.


This then gives them two free hands to put the other bits in place.



Here are pictures of the damaged Pressure Plate that I will be sending back. Is this the same as the damage you had Ben?

[burgundyben]

Damage is identical.

I didnt bolt or clamp it down, my colleague lent on it and I fitted the circlip.

I think that your guys caused the damage, likewise I caused the damage, the point is that the item is far to fragile to be fit for purpose.

Fit for purpose - an expression used in the UK Sale of Goods Act Law which basically states that an item must be suitable to be used for the purpose its sold for. In a UK court if it weas decided that a fire guard melted because it was made of chocolate the court would rule the item not fit for purpose and hence the applicant would be awarded damages.

IMHO you should get your money back.

[Kroggers]

I would agree with you 100% Ben. The question is who should be refunding me the cost - the mechanic that tried to fit the Throw Out Bearing or the supplier that supplied me the kit in the first place - that is the argument I am about to have, is it not

[Jeff Higgins]

You guys are driving loads through that diaphram spring in directions it was never designed to accept them. No wonder it failed. This one is entirely on the mechanics that thought it was appropriate to attempt to install the throwout bearing in this manner - there is no fault with Sachs. These things need to be pushed down evenly and flat, not levered down at an angle like that.

I guess you are lucky it failed on the bench and not in the car. Even if this method had been apparently "successful", it no doubt would have succeeded in stressing those very fingers that remained over extended in this case - the ones around that single bolt holding it down.

[Kroggers]

Thank you for the feedback Jeff. I am no expert, and that is why I gave it over to them to have the job done for me along with having them rebuild my 915 transmission.

I will contact the mechanic who did the work and try to get a refund from him for the damage - but fear I am trying to fight a loosing battle here

The Pressure Plate you see getting the bearing installed into in the above pictures is the replacement one i purchased from them today. It did not look like they were putting a lot of force onto it, but more like using it as an approach to hold the Pressure Plate in place so tha t they could get all the other bits on...

[Kroggers]

Does anyone have some documented instructions from Sachs on how to install the throw out bearing? I have not seen any and that was part of the reason why I did not want to try to do this myself.

Would be nice to see something in writing from Sachs to say how to install the bearing that I can supply to the mechanic as evidence that his approach is not a good one and that he was responsibility for the damage to the plate - without that I think I am stuffed. He has repeatedly said that "this is how they have always done it and they have never had a problem, so will not take indispensability for the damage"

[burgundyben]

Exactly, its fragile, it comes with no instructions, IMHO it should either come with instructions and a warning or come with the bearing installed.

[Kroggers]

OK, I want to go direct to the source - the plate has a US specific part number apparently, so I need to talk to Sachs in the US to see where I stand.

Anyone know what the contact details are for Sachs in the US so that I can contact them?

[john walker's workshop]

read my post above on how to do it. one man, two hands and 30 seconds. hell, all you have to overcome is that little cone shaped spring. you don't need clamps, etc. they definitely broke it with their procedure. the part is not wimpy or they would be breaking all over town.

[BeemerMike]

Originally Posted by Kroggers

Does anyone have some documented instructions from Sachs on how to install the throw out bearing?

Page 9.1-2/3 of the Porsche 911 Workshop Manual shows you clearly how to remove and install the throwout bearing. One page with pictures. It is essentially what JohnWalker and Jeff described. It looks quite a bit different from what your "specialist" is doing. Makes me wonder about the 915 rebuild.

[175K911]

Agreed, these are beefy pressure plates. I've run the aluminum PP in all my track 911's (20+ years) and have never had one fail. I plan to use mine with my 3.6 conversion. And I know a number of folks running them in their 3.6 conversions without incident. Definitely installer-induced failure.

[Peter Bull]

I used the same method as John Walker described, and I've used that aluminum PP for about seven years of spirited driving without any problems.

/Peter

[john walker's workshop]

you might want to direct those guys to this thread.

[Kroggers]

OK this is all good stuff, but to be able to get my money back and the error rectified I actually need something that categorically states that their approach is wrong and what damaged the plate - that is why I am after something from Sachs that specifies the correct way to do this.

I think they have not had a problem before due to the fact that they normally do this with the steel plate. Maybe this is the first aluminum one they have seen? This would worry me as they have been in business since the late 60's and as such I would hope they would have seen and worked with an aluminum pressure plate before.

Another thing that is interesting is that they sold me a steel one, and stated that Sachs has discontinued the aluminum pressure plate - can someone confirm if this is correct or not?

They did say that the Swedish importer for Sachs could not find the part number in their system that was on the plate I got from Timmins - who is actually being very helpful at the moment and will contact Sachs in the US to see if they can help...

I just hope they did a better job rebuilding my 915 transmission then they did with the aluminum pressure plate

Originally Posted by BeemerMike

Page 9.1-2/3 of the Porsche 911 Workshop Manual shows you clearly how to remove and install the throwout bearing. One page with pictures. It is essentially what JohnWalker and Jeff described. It looks quite a bit different from what your "specialist" is doing. Makes me wonder about the 915 rebuild.

I do not have the workshop manual, could you please scan in that page and email it to me or post it here, so I have the approach documented by Porsche as part of my evidence that they broke my plate?

[BeemerMike]

Originally Posted by Kroggers

I do not have the workshop manual, could you please scan in that page and email it to me or post it here, so I have the approach documented by Porsche as part of my evidence that they broke my plate?

Here is the relevant page (9.1-2/3) plus two other supporting pages (2/1 and 2/2). Hopefully this will help. If your specialist has been in business since the 60's, they should have a copy of these burgundy notebooks on the shelf.