Help: Problem After Installing Mitch Leland's Steering Column Bushing

UrQuattro · UrQuattro's Garage

Hey all,

so, over the past week, I've notices that the play in my steering column has become almost scary. Had ordered one of Mitch's bushings a while ago, but hadn't gotten around to installing it.

Well, now I felt the time had really come, so, I removed my steering wheel, followed the instructions as far as removing the star washer and th circlip. All went well.

I had a few different tools that I had to try to pick out any pieces of any sleeves that might be there.

I did find remnants of what appears to be a plastic sleeve, and I was wable to get a few small bits out, but using a dental pick In combination with the can opener on my leatherman, I was able to get a few very small pieces, but I could see that thee seemed that most of the sleeve was intact, but had just fallen behind the small space where the sleeve is supposed to be.

After about an hour I gave up, as the instructions say that remnants haven't really caused poblems in the past.

Amazingly, when I went to install mitch's bushing, i was pretty much able to get it seated by hand. It just seemed to slide in to place with some resistance, but it's fit matched te picture that accompanied the instructions. I gave it a few taps just in case, but it sounded fine.

I installed the circlip (I did have to tighten that down), and then installed the momo hub, wheel, etc.

I took it for a test drive before torquing down the nut on the column itself. It seemed to drive fine, though I was focusing on whether I got the splines lined up, but overall, it drove ok.

When I torqued it down, and then took it for a drive, I could tell there was something wrong, especially when turning to the right.

The first symptom was that the steering felt SIGNIFICANTLY heavier than it used to. In fact, as I said above, if I turned to the right and let go of the wheel, the steering would not return back to center. It would stay turned, forcing me to steer it back to straight.

I have no idea what happened. I don't know if I really overtightened it accidentally, or what, but I just really hopet that I didn't hurt something.

Oh, I did vaguely hear a kind of crunching sound intermittently when turning the wheel, which I'm assuming is the old sleeve that got pushed back behind the new bushing.

Has anyone had this experience? I called it a day after I got back from the test drive after the one that first indicated the problem where I loosened the nut on the steering column, but I didn't notice a difference.

Anyway, HELP!!! Heh.

Thanks in advance everyone.

Michael

PcarPhil · 09-29-2010, 06:28 PM

I have personally seen this happen with the Leland bushing. I think the way the Leland bushing works is it eliminates any play between the steering column bearing and the steering shaft, forcing the steering column bearing to do it's job. If your steering column has had play for some time (years?) then it's possible the steering column bearing is fubar and not providing smooth motion.

Perhaps you could pull the Leland bushing and lubricate the column bearing? Maybe lubricating the bearing will free it up enough to provide smooth action.

If that doesn't work then I think the proper solution is to (ugh) replace the steering column bearing.

Another option is to replace the Leland bushing with a greased quick-fix sleeve and put up with a slight amount of play in the shaft. Regrease periodically.

I'm curious what you end up doing. In my case we ended up using less torque on the steering wheel nut, along with some blue locktite to keep the nut in place. This helped. Eventually (after a couple hundred miles of forcing the steering wheel left to right) the steering column bearing loosened up enough to provide decent steering feel (wheel returning to center, etc). But there still is a bit of 'stiction' in the system. I don't think the stiction will go away completely until the steering column bearing is replaced - which means pulling the steering column.

I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem. While it's a bummer you're experiencing this I'm glad I'm not the only one!

rusnak · 09-29-2010, 06:40 PM

Did you use an impact wrench to torque the steering wheel down? Have you used one in the past?

You say it drove fine before torquing down, but the problem appeared after you tightened the nut.

That tells me that you (1) overtightened the steering wheel nut, damaging the c-clip, causing drag between the steering wheel and the bushing, or (2) the c-clip was damaged already, or worse, bent or twisted. In that case, you will need a new c-clip. The steering wheel really can't turn unless it's bottomed out on the c-clip, once it's tightened. You can't damage the c-clip or you will get interference.

Never use an impact wrench on the steering wheel. Be careful to tighten to specification.

UrQuattro · UrQuattro's Garage

Well, honestly, I haven't had the problem for that long. It's possible that it was there, but that I never noticed it, but honestly, it's only been onver the past few months that the problem has become really bad.

I'm sure that my steering wheel setup has something to do with the quick degredation, as I have the momo hub, a quick release (about 2-2.5" thick), and a 1/2" momo spacer.

I'm about 6'2"-6'3", and mostly legs, so I needed to figure out how to be able to have my seat further back, and also be in the proper position for the steering wheel. In the stock position, I could barely drive. Anytime I turned the steering wheel, my legs were in the way.

I dunno, I know that what I've done has put the wheel a bit further out than stock, but some of the deep dished aftermarket wheels out there put the wheels pretty close to where I'm at.

Maybe this will give some insights?

Also, I this helps, even when there was a very small amount of wiggle in the steering column, the steering was definitely not overly stiff. In fact, as soon as I'd start moving, the steering would become very light and feel very solid.

I dunno. I REALLY REALLY don't want to do the steering column. I'm pretty intimidated by that job. From what I hear, it's very difficult.

Michael

PcarPhil · 09-29-2010, 06:52 PM

Wow. I'll be shocked if simply replacing the c-clip fixes this issue. Major kudos to rusnak if that's the case!

In my case a impact wrench wasn't used. Proper torquing was. Same overall problem that UrQuattro is experiencing. In my case after backing off on the torque a bit, and turning the steering wheel left and right for a few hundred miles, the problem lessened. Still...it's not perfect but pretty good. A bit of stiction at dead center. Perhaps I should replace my c-clip?!

UrQuattro · UrQuattro's Garage

I don't have an impact wrench, but I also don't have a torque wrench with me right now. I have a full set of them, but they are at my sister's ex husband's house, and he was supposed to have delivered all of her and my possessions, but he is pretty scummy.

Actually, the first thing I was gonna do tomorrow was check the c-clip. My thought was that I might have hurt it.

So, if I damaged it via overtorquing the nut, can I pull it off and flatten it out and try again, or do I just have to get a new one?

Do dealers have them?

Michael

PcarPhil · 09-29-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrQuattro

I'm about 6'2"-6'3", and mostly legs, so I needed to figure out how to be able to have my seat further back, and also be in the proper position for the steering wheel.

I dunno. I REALLY REALLY don't want to do the steering column. I'm pretty intimidated by that job. From what I hear, it's very difficult.

Michael

I'm 6' 4" and running a 930S steering wheel with hub kit and spacer. I too REALLY don't want to replace the steering column bearing.

Perhaps I should reinstall a stock wheel and see if the problem remains.

rusnak · 09-29-2010, 06:59 PM

Think about it. What clearance is increased when you loosen the steering wheel nut? Having a Momo hub, and a spacer has nothing to do with it, so you can eliminate that. If you over torque the steering wheel nut, the c-clip will go concave (or convex I get them mixed up), and then the steering wheel will contact the steering bushing, forcing it to try to turn inside the steering column.

Take the steering wheel off, and look for evidence on the steering wheel bushing of contact with the steering wheel hub. The c-clip is there to prevent contact between these parts. Just think through it.

UrQuattro · UrQuattro's Garage

Kaefer-

see that's the difference, on center, it feels totally normal. It's when I move the wheel at least 45 degrees off center that it stays in that position until I force it back to straight. It's pretty scary.

Michael

ps. I'd never use an impact wrench to tighten something like this. But, I'm pretty sure, looking back on it that I really did overtorque it.

rusnak · 09-29-2010, 07:07 PM

The hub spacer will make your steering feel heavier, but that's a completely different problem.

You said you had to "tighten up" the c-clip. It might be damaged already. You can try to fix it, but you'd be so much better off just buying a new one.

PcarPhil · 09-29-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrQuattro

Kaefer-

see that's the difference, on center, it feels totally normal. It's when I move the wheel at least 45 degrees off center that it stays in that position until I force it back to straight. It's pretty scary.

Michael

ps. I'd never use an impact wrench to tighten something like this. But, I'm pretty sure, looking back on it that I really did overtorque it.

Trust me. I know the feeling. Mine was the EXACT same way. I could turn the steering wheel 45 degrees and if I let go of the steering wheel it would stay at 45 degrees. Not cool.

Before I gave up on the Leland bushing I turned the steering wheel back and forth a bizillion times and it freed itself up a good bit. Now I just have a bit of stiction when moving the steering wheel from dead center.

PcarPhil · 09-29-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusnak

Think about it. What clearance is increased when you loosen the steering wheel nut? Having a Momo hub, and a spacer has nothing to do with it, so you can eliminate that. If you over torque the steering wheel nut, the c-clip will go concave (or convex I get them mixed up), and then the steering wheel will contact the steering bushing, forcing it to try to turn inside the steering column.

Take the steering wheel off, and look for evidence on the steering wheel bushing of contact with the steering wheel hub. The c-clip is there to prevent contact between these parts. Just think through it.

I hear ya and understand. I think what you're saying is I may have a damaged c-clip (now concave/convex instead of flat) that when the steering wheel nut is fully torqued to spec perhaps the c-clip is pushing the Leland bushing into the steering bearing, causing stiction.

Or perhaps the c-clip is fine and the face of the Leland bushing should be machined down a wee bit to provide additional clearance between the bushing and the c-clip.

I'll take off my 930 wheel and take a look.

Pics from the bushing thread (not my car) just for reference:

UrQuattro · UrQuattro's Garage

I just went out and checked. I just HAD to know if there was contact from the momo hub and if the circlip is deformed.

Rusnack - you rawk!! There is DEFINITE deformation to the circlip toward the bushing, and there are scuff marks all over the surface of the Leland bushing from turning the steering wheel.

Oh, an when I said that I had to tighten the circlip a little when I reinstalled it, i was just following the suggestion in Mitch's instructions. Since the circlip is removed and then installed again, it stretched out slightly. Circlips will do this.

So I'm gonna call my local pcar shop tomorrow and see if they have one of these circlips in stock, and get oe from them.

The other option is to remove it again, flatten it out, re-install it, and torque it down correctly.

So I think you saved me a night of no sleep. THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

Though, none of this is completely confirmed, so it isn't a 100% for sure yet... But pretty close.

Michael

rusnak · 09-29-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaefer

I hear ya and understand. I think what you're saying is I may have a damaged c-clip (now concave/convex instead of flat) that when the steering wheel nut is fully torqued to spec perhaps the c-clip is pushing the Leland bushing into the steering bearing, causing stiction.

Or perhaps the c-clip is fine and the face of the Leland bushing should be machined down a wee bit to provide additional clearance between the bushing and the c-clip.

I'll take off my 930 wheel and take a look.

Pics from the bushing thread (not my car) just for reference:

The top pic is right after the bushing was installed, prior to c-clip installation.

The second pic shows the star washer (incorrectly) left in place.

Look at that bottom pic. No way that's going to work. The bushing needs to seat against the bearing. Probably something like a star washer or bits of plastic in the way.

PcarPhil · 09-29-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UrQuattro

I just went out and checked. I just HAD to know if there was contact from the momo hub and if the circlip is deformed.

Rusnack - you rawk!! There is DEFINITE deformation to the circlip toward the bushing, and there are scuff marks all over the surface of the Leland bushing from turning the steering wheel.

Very cool. I'll try and check mine tomorrow. This is a very DUHHH moment for me if my problem is also due to a bent c-clip!

(I have a feeling I'm going to find a self-clearanced Leland bushing in place!)

5String43 · 09-29-2010, 08:17 PM

No offense to Mr. Leland or to anyone else, but this thread is making me mighty happy that I relied on the old shaving-cream-can-lid solution to this problem. I'm just sayin'....

Mitch Leland · Mitch Leland's Garage

Scott,

I've been out of town so I'm just getting up to speed on this... This bushing works, we've sold "a lot" of these and with few exceptions they work flawlessly. When they don't it usually boils down to some gotcha problem.

I'm not sure what you were trying to show with your pictures... Naturally you're aware that the "star washer" has to be removed before installing the new bushing. The last picture shows the new bushing riding way up on the steering column, what were you trying to show with this picture?

The top of the bushing has to be seated to allow some clearance between the "C" clip and the top of the bushing. You can determine this before installing the "C" clip by just looking at the "C" clip groove. If the top of the bushing is not below the bottom part of the "C" clip groove then there is a problem.

When you remove the "C" clip it opens up so when you go back with it you need to pitch it back up. If you don't do this then when you tighten the steering wheel you might easily force the steering hub and the "C" clip down the steering shaft on to the new bushing. I'm just throwing out ideas...

Would you verify that you have clearance below the "C" clip groove, if you don't then we need to see why you don't.

If you like you can PM me and I will give you my e-mail address so we can get at your problem and resolve it. I want to be sure you have a good experience with our bushing...

rusnak · 09-29-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5String43

No offense to Mr. Leland or to anyone else, but this thread is making me mighty happy that I relied on the old shaving-cream-can-lid solution to this problem. I'm just sayin'....

The shaving cream or paint can lid trick is a poor man's fix, which I sort of think is useful to wean people off of the 928 sleeve, which has problems. The Mitch Leland bushing is a permanent fix.

UrQuattro · UrQuattro's Garage

Mitch,

I LOVE your design. I dont know if any of your message was to me, but there was definitely room between your bushing and the circlip groove.

And as you said, when you pull it out over the steering column it gets stretched open. When i first tried putting it back on, it didn't fit securely, so I just removed it and used a pair of pliars to close the circlip a little.

As to 5string43 - the problem that I had with the installation was that I severely OVERTORQUED the steering column nut upon reinstallation.

Why would you inferr that to be a fault of this bushing's design.

I am very excited to get this little issue resolved tomorrow so that my steering column ha no more play, and I'll NEVER have to worry about failure.

I just don't understand why you would want to use the top of a shaving can in an area that is so important and which has an amazingly well engineered solution available that will last longer than the car, will never allow play in the column again, and is actually engineered for the job that it is doing.

That is like using duct tape to close up a split cv boot. Stuff some grease in there and then wrap the he'll out of it with duct tape. Sure it might seem like a good solution (an I know it works for thousands of miles), but it is no the correct solution.

Michael

PcarPhil · 09-30-2010, 05:17 AM

I took my steering wheel off this morning to take a look. Here's what I found:

1. The bushing is flush with the c-clip channel. It is also bottomed out against the bearing.

2. There is a lip on the 930S hub that is contacting the bushing (sliding over the c-clip). You can see the wear marks on the bushing from self clearancing. I'm pretty sure this self clearancing is the drag I'm feeling when moving the steering wheel off center. Hopefully not the steering bearing like I was originally thinking!

3. The bushing is bottomed out against the bearing, star washer removed and the bushing is installed according to instructions. I verified again today that the bushing is bottomed out against the bearing.

4. I have been using less torque on the steering nut, combined with a small bit of blue locktite to prevent loosening, and the steering has been good except for a small amount of drag/stiction when moving the wheel off center.

5. In my situation I think if some bushing face material was removed, basically so the face is almost flush with the allen bolt heads, then I wouldn't have anymore interference between the hub and the bushing.