two is better than one.......right?

[Leland Pate]

Well, now I have two oil coolers.
One is a Mocal with fan and the other is a stock Carrera cooler off of an '85.

I'm toying with the idea of mounting both (front fenders).

Just wondering what the best way to go about this would be....

One fan, two fans fan on Mocal, fan on Carrera cooler, fan on both.. no fans...

One thermostat running two fans...

I assume a stock oil pump has no trouble running two oil coolers (i.e. more lines and resistance)???

I know Rattlsnak had a setup like this... any imput Marc?

You all can now add "excessive amounts of oil coolers" to my fetish list.

Along with "excessive amounts of cockpit gauges"

[dickster]

aaaahhhhhh, putting superior Carrera parts on the sc......

cunning.....

richard

[911pcars]

Unless you prefer to keep the same body panels, I suggest one (1) large oil cooler mounted in a DP-type bumper/spoiler. No fan required/necessary. This maintains the KISS principle; avoids adding more weight and complexity and works.

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[BK911]

The oil pump is a positive displacement pump, so virtually unlimited head available. I other words, you'll have no problem adding two or more oil coolers. The pump will be able to handle the increased resistance.

[davis911s]

Leland I think you should go with just the Mocal, that should be enough for anything you will be running with your SC. Jack needed more due to the large HP, Big engine. I think one cooler on your 3.0 should be lots. And you don't want to put Carrera stuff on your SC. Get rid of it, get it as far away as possible- Say Canada or someplace- I know a guy who would get rid of it for you up here

Seriously I think one will do for your car though Leland

GET HOME! And start putting these things in your car.

Shawn

[Jack Olsen]

I would agree that having two coolers is probably overkill for your engine, Lee. And there's a weight penalty, not just from the cooler and plumbing, but also from the additional oil. I don't know much about the Mocal model, but the Carrera cooler is hard to beat, and it benefits (in bumper-to-bumper traffic) from a fan.

If you do plumb two coolers, run them in series, and consider inverting the coolers to reduce hard to reach plumbing bottlenecks. I started with the crossover lines under the front spoiler, but have since had that switched to running through the trunk. Wouldn't want to tear one loose on a curb.

[pwd72s]

"GET HOME! And start putting these things in your car.

Shawn"

DITTOS! Paul

[GeorgeM]

Leland,

I did exactly what you're considering on my '89 Carrera.

My car would get hot in the summer at D.E. events, so I got a 44 row Mocal and mounted in up front in series with the stock cooler.

I actually built a valence out of two used parts to make room up front. I wanted it to look as stock as possible, and it came out not-so-bad. I kept the original for re-conversion if necessary.

I got all the parts from BAT in Florida and fabricated the bracket from perforated 1 1/4 inch flat metal strapping. There's just enough room behind the new valence for the cooler.

I'll get some photos posted tonite after my NVG hop.

[Leland Pate]

I realize the pros and cons of both.

I don't want to mess with a front mounted cooler. I don't want to change my valance.

Glad to hear that it wouldn't harm my precious oil pump.
Thanks for the pictures Jack... shuldn't you BE WORKING????!!

I was trying to think of which way would be the best to route the oil lines... i.e. would it be best for the oil to come from the engine and go to the pasenger side cooler first then run its way back to the drivers side before going back to the passenger side and back to the engine. Or if it would be best to do it the other way...
I thought about this for a while and I really don't think it matters...
Opinions?
What I will most likely do is this...
Install the Carrera cooler, drive it for half the summer, see if I'm satisfied with the operatimg temps, and if not, install the second cooler.
I don't care about wieght... as long as the engine is cool.

To me, 30 lbs of extra weight and 20 degrees of cooler engine temps is a worthy trade off in my mind.



thanks again guys ...oh hell gotta run... we have another dog alert.

.

[masraum]

For another example of the dual fender mounted coolers you can check this link out. It's another 3.6L conversion from a blown up 2.7L in a wide-body converted '77. He's, Thom Fitzpatrick, a regular on the Rennlist email list.

[GeorgeM]

Here's the custom valence. You can see that it is moved forward to the front edge of the bumper to make room for the cooler. I welded on extensions (the ends of another valence) to fill the gaps created by moving the whole thing forward. I also had to combine pieces of two spoilers to account for the extra length. I'm still working on the joints up front. I think some black latex caulk might do the trick.
The right fog light opening is a double outlet BSR duct that runs to the fender cooler and brake coolers, and the left is a single to the left brake.

[Jdub]

George: That is a very slick setup, and I really like the forward set of the valance.

Do you think you could shim the valance joints using something akin to the black plastic used between 'wings and tub?

EDIT: Ah, I see now what you've done; thanks for correcting me. The caulk is for the lip spoiler joint.

Noah: Johnson indeed...soon you'll be quoting Balzac... ;>

[StuttgartDavid]

L: Oil cooler effectiveness is all about the airflow through the cooler rather than the size. Two coolers with poor airflow won't do much more than one. And I'm not talking about wimpy fans designed to move a little air in stop-n-go traffic, I'm talking about larger cfm volumes forced to go through the cooler, not around it, at 70+mph when the engine is under heavy load. Note the relative ineffectiveness of the Carrera cooler despite its fins and fan. It is simply shrouded from airflow, which is why the factory put in the under-bumper cutout on the later Carreras to give them more airflow.

Check into that mod for your SC. It is easily done, and the factory already did the windtunnel work to identify that area as a nice high pressure one (don't fight mother nature. Cooling is all about airflow, and airflow will only move from areas of high pressure to low). Also easy and cheap is the old trick of putting the turn signal/ marker light wires on a cannon plug so you can pull the light out for enhanced airflow for those high speed runs. These two mods made even the stock loop coolers on friend's unmodified SCs pretty effective even on hot days running Willow Springs with the POC.

Lastly, with all due respect, since I believe that you don't track your car, all this may simply be unnecessary. The factory really did know what they were doing, despite the American obsession with oil temps. Unless you regularly drive flat out in a desert environment, your factory cooling, or at most the Carrera cooler using the cutout, is probably up to the job if your engine is in time, running good gas, the engine cooler not blocked by crap, and the factory heat/air management trays, etc. are properly installed in your engine compartment.

[Mrdi]

Originally posted by richardnelson
aaaahhhhhh, putting superior Carrera parts on the sc......

cunning.....

richard

Hmmm do I sense a plot,putting Carrera parts on an SC.

[Leland Pate]

Well thanks for all of the input.

Shawn, I've been meaning to ask you, have you had a chance to call base billeting to see if you can stay there for the race this summer????

masraum, that link you provided was pretty cool... *(no pun intended)*... I never thought of using fiberglass mat to make a shroud so to speak.
Very clever.

GeorgeM,
I LOVE YOUR CARS COLOR!
Other than silver, I'd love to have my car painted that color of green. Beaaauuuuutiful...

David, thanks for the alternative view.
Frankly put. I am tired of worrying about oil temps.
After my rebuild, I took the car out on a 10 mile hop on the interstate. This was last September so it was definately hot out ~100deg or so. By the time I got off the interstate the oil temp was a bit past the half way mark on my gauge. (the CO might have been running a bit lean b/c I haven't had it adjusted yet..this may have influenced the temps a bit)
This in my mind is unacceptable.
I have been led to believe that operating temps between 190 to 200deg is ideal.
If my car is running at 260, I think it would be a little too hopeful to think that one cooler is going to drop my temps that dramatically.
I do understand the importance of airflow. The carrera cooler I bought is coming to me with all of the sheet metal that the factory used to direct the air so hopefully that will help.
You are right, I'm no racer and this is no race car. But I'll be damned if I'm going to limit the life expectancy of my motor by running it too hot. Especially if adding an extra cooler, abiet overkill, isn't really hurting anything.

Thanks for all of the views!

[Jim T]

Running at 260 degrees in 100 degree weather, on the highway??

If that's the case, something is wrong. There is no way it should run that hot in the stock condition.

I agree that you should confirm what you are running at before adding an oil cooler at all. The plain old loop cooler is fine for most SCs under street driving conditions.

200-210 is fine for oil temps. You may be running at that right now.

[Pillow]

Here is my opinion on the matter...

You only hack up your car anyway putting in a dual cooler system. Therefore it is really not stock anymore. Just go ahead and put in a front center RUF or RSR cooler system. Much more efficient and a clean install.

To me the RSR or RUF front kit looks better than stock anyway. Plus the fibergalss bumpers will weigh less than the stock bumpers/spoilers so you get the added weight savings

... I will sneak back into my hole now, safe from the flames