More camber

dede911 · 11-01-2010, 06:15 AM

Hi all,

I need more camber on the 911SC to get the toyo's work better. Even with a breaker bar, I can get max -1 °. The goal is 1.5° to 2°

I'm looking at 2 options:

1) grind the strut plate (and reinforce) and grind the opening in the tower ca 10 mm (1mm is 0.1°) and keep the poly bush.

2) install monoballs with excentric camber plate (wevo or ER)

Car is used for road track.

I'm afraid about the lifespan of monoballs...I don't want the hear a rattle...

What do you Think?

Thx,

Dede

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

Put the monoballs in, assuming your ball joints are as-new else you can use decambered joints also as long as you aren't racing.

dad911 · 11-01-2010, 06:41 AM

Elephant racing makes an offset balljoint. Probably the easiest way to do it.

ELEPHANT RACING De-Cambered Ball Joint, 911 Series

You can buy it from Pelican.

stlrj · 11-01-2010, 07:01 AM

There is an option : #3) Lower the front another inch and see how much more negative camber you gain.

moneymanager · 11-01-2010, 07:51 AM

Grinding will get you a bit but you will probably have to remove the shock hats and replace with rubber to make any real progress. (The shocks will rub on their sides if you grind more than just a tad.) Even then, depending on your particular car, you will probably only end up with 0.5° so a camber plate or more will also be needed. Camber plates don't make any noise in my experience.

dede911 · 11-01-2010, 08:43 AM

My concern with camber plates is that because it is more "racinfg stuff" it is king of consumable.

I don't want to replace the bearings yearly!

Because I drive around 5000 km/year, I need reliability.

Who has long term experinece with camber plates?

911-32 · 911-32's Garage

I have about 12-15,000 miles on my Elephant Racing off-set camber plates. No rattles.

KTL · 11-01-2010, 09:17 AM

Raise the strut spindles and then your tires aren't screaming for as much camber. That said, the 911 strut tops are definitely camber-challenged. Another alternative would be camber boxes = cut the chassis.

Those are for use with coilovers, so you're not quite there- yet.

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

I have the monoballs, they are not camber plates, and they have lasted 5 years of DE and Racing so far with no signs of wearing out.

stlrj · 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dede911

Hi all,

I need more camber on the 911SC to get the toyo's work better.

What are you using for your criteria? Tread temp? Understeer issues? Recommendation from others? "Goes to reason" deduction? Appearances?

dede911 · 11-01-2010, 10:13 AM

The reason for more camber is that we try to keep the temps equal over the tire surface.

It also depends from circuit to circuit...

Also caster is playing here a role, but my caster is already at max (and makes the steering heavy)

VFR750 · 11-01-2010, 02:29 PM

24,000 miles on monoballs and ER polybronze bushings. Over just fine. A little looser than new, but nothing I'd worry about for a while.

I've maxed out at -1.8 and could use more for some of the tighter tracks like MMC. If I were to do it again I'd get the offset camber plates. I've also pulled on the camber brace to get another -.1-.2 deg. The stock camber plate is so big, that even taking off the shock tube, I couldn't do more than -1.8. I'd have to cut the chassis to get more. Sounds like you don't want to do that either.

Go for the offset camber plates. While you can get more, you can also go for less than max camber if the tracks don't need -2.5 deg. I think they will give you more options, and 5,000k a year will be fine for a long time.

911st · 11-01-2010, 02:46 PM

ER has weather sealed monoball strut tops if that is a worry.

I cut off the inside part of my stock strut tops, elongated the holes, and set my car to about 25.25" fender height with stock height tires and got close to -2 deg and it was not near enough neg camber for a stock suspension 86 Carrera with 22/21mm sway bars.

Even a full race 911 with 3 times the wheel spring rate and very stiff sided race tires are going to run about -3 deg of static camber up front. With stock or mild stock spring we can use even more camber.

However, I never had issue with front bite with a stock LSD, only front tire wear.

I just ended up learning to live with some outside tire wear on the track and inside wear on the street. Some tires can be rotated on the rim if needed.

dede911 · 11-01-2010, 09:25 PM

911st,

do you used monoballs (with camberplates), or standard top plates you modified?

Your statement about tire wear and behavior is spot-on IMHO.
For combination road/track 2° is the max I believe.

911st · 11-02-2010, 06:20 AM

With all the effort I went to and after hacking up my car to get the last .2 deg of camber I do not know if it is worth it.

If we need something like -4 deg or more on a stock car, having 1.7 v 2 degs is not the solution.

I took the strut tops off, used an angle grinder to slice off the inner most part that fouls the inner fender off. Also had to elongate the holes in the body.

Was able to get the struts to the point the shock top was what limited travel.

I believe it better to just buy a set of camber plates and remove the shock hat. Some use a plastic accordion style dust boots in its place.

I also dialed in as much caster as possible.

Last, I tried to compute at what height the front needed to be so that in a corner the compressed side would put the CL of the ball joint and arm hing at right angles to the shock. This is the point of the most neg camber.

Still had excessive outer tire wear.

dede911 · 11-02-2010, 11:21 AM

I also have concerns about "hacking up" the car....this can also make the "modified" area less ridgid, with more flex on dynamical loads....something we are not looking for.

Probably camber plates are a better solution...