Targa Help advice needed/seals

[yazhound]

Hello All,
I am new to PP. I just purchased an 88 911 Targa. The top needs reconditioning and the likely need new seals. I have been told that the ones from ********** are not reliable. Does anyone have any experience with these items? Any suggestions on who best to restore the top to its original form?

Thanks - jeff

[Targa Me]

Welcome.
Are you talking about the seal that runs along the Targa bar? I, myself haven't purchased these, maybe some one will chime in.
On a different note, posting photos of you new (to you) P-car is almost manditory.
Jeff, hang around here and you'll learn a lot.

[yazhound]

Originally Posted by Targa Me

Welcome.
Are you talking about the seal that runs along the Targa bar? I, myself haven't purchased these, maybe some one will chime in.
On a different note, posting photos of you new (to you) P-car is almost manditory.
Jeff, hang around here and you'll learn a lot.

Will try to get pics posted asap. Yes, I am talking about the bar, but also in front just behind the windshield. I also have a 912 - 1968 that I am beginning to restore. My father purchased it new from the factory. Cheers...

[UrQuattro]

The over the windshield one is a bit of a long story, but do a search for it and look for dan petchel's name. He makes the correct seal for the older targas. The seals produced for porsche are actually the same seals used for the 964 targa which uses a larger seal, so when you go to close your top on that new seal, it won't close properly. I've been through it.

Oh, and as far as reconditioning your targa tol, DON'T GO LOCAL! you can't just re-cover these and have them work right afterwards. Again, dan is the man. I don't have the URL for him right now, but he has the correct jigs and such to do the whole removal of the top from theframe while keeping the frame perfectly square. Which other shops are not able to do because they don't have the jigs.

I'm saving up to send my top to him. To have it completely redone, and I mean truly completely redone, it will be about $900 total, but the top will finally fit right and I will not have leaks anymore.

Michael

[UrQuattro]

Here's the URL.

Vintage Porsche Parts and Targa Tops for Porsche

Michael

[DRACO A5OG]

+1 on Dan at Carsinc ^^^ He has the proper front seal, that is a must.

Can get rear seal with our host.

Side seals also need to be proper so Dan has those too. URO brand will not fit properly per Dan.

[gamin]

Dan is at carsincnj.com. All contact info is there. He has everything needed for targa tops.
Call him on the phone and discuss your needs. He has been doing targa tops for a long time.
Gary

[yazhound]

This confirms what my research has told me so far. And, actually I have spoken with Dan and he seemed gracious and enthusiastic. So thus, it looks like I am sending the seals I have back, and my top off to Dan (as soon as funds permit!) Yikes. Monday I am having it looked over mechanically to make sure it gets sorted out correctly. So far I have put a tad over 1k on her and she runs well for a long time daily driver. Which I intend for her to remain! No garage queen.

You know, I remember my first ride in my father's (and now my) 1968 912 just 3 hours out of the factory... in the back seat where there was plenty of room as I was just 3 yo. I have long desired my own and so far even knowing there is work to be done (and expenses), it is all grins when I am behind the wheel.

So thanks again to the responses and when I get time I will post pictures. Cheers - yaz

[craigyirush]

I am sceptical about the value of sending your top away to get rebuilt.

Doesn't the person who is re-doing your top need to have the car with them in order to line up the hood properly?

[UrQuattro]

No, they do not. I know a bunch about this, but there are others who can answer your question a lot better than I can right now given that I'm on a iPhone.

If you read my first post above, you will see that dan is one of maybe two or three (maybe a few more, but I dont know who) people who have the correct jig to mount the targa top frame in while he aligns 5 aluminum pieces that give the top it's form, and is then able to add the webbing correctly in with them, which gives the top a lot of it's strength. And then there is the layer of what looks like burlap, bit is not burlap (though the vast majority of rebuilds are done with burlap because the material seems so close, but burlap can't perform properly and disintegrates rather quickly), and then I believe is the step where the vinyl skin is wrapped over it, and what you end up with is a perfectly squared top that is going to fit the car.

See, to fit a perfectly squared top to a car, you just attach it, but if the car is bent or twisted in some way, then that is when you adjust the seals, or how tightly the two locks fit, or the heights on the rear locating pins.

But I guarantee you, given that he's been doing this for a very very long time and as far as I know, every time he fully restores a top, it fits the car perfectly because the car allows the top to fit to it.

That should hopefully be enough for now.

Michael

[UrQuattro]

And actually, even on a car that IS slightly bent, the way it attaches to the car allows for some "play". That's why you can hear the top kind of move around a little bit if you go into driveways at an angle or do the same thing over speedbumps.

I'm going to be sending my top in to dan very soon.

The PO had the top "rebuilt" by a local shop that he had been going to for years, but when it was done, it leaked, the wind noise was unbearable, and it simply will not fit correctly because the top is not square with the frame, causing it to sit poorly on the car. I don't know how local shops do it, but I'm pretty sure that if they let that frame get out of square at all , you are going to have a problem.

On mine, there is pinching on the leading edge of the vinyl, the top is settoo far forward for it to fit below the windshield frame, which is what it is supposed to do, by about 3/8". And the rear goes from an interference fit a the corners, to having about 1/2" or so of a gap between the trailing edge of the top and the targa bar. It also sita lower than the leading edge of the targa bar, where it is supposed to sit slightly higher.

I have been able to help reduce the leaks and wind noise by installing dan's over the windshield seal (that made a HUGE difference in the level of wind noise, but it's still not right, and I also had the targa bar seal replaced. Now instead of getting massive flooding in the rear floors, I deal with drips where the 1/4 windows meet the main side windows, and no amount of adjustments can fix it. So I have to leave towels covering my sparco alcantara covered driving seat and the factory sport seat on the passenger side. But I can only do that in mild rain. In heavy rain, way too much water will get in and I have to put a cover over it.

So you can imagine how much I'm looking forward to having the top sone right.

Michael

[Coldface]

I am in the process of redoing my top myself. One can fabricate some square jig to hold the frame tight in proper position when all the webbing and burlaplike material goes on top. It should not be too hard with a few pieces of steel piping and a welder.

For those who do not have the skills, I'd definitely recommend sending your top to a professional.

Sergei

[UrQuattro]

Okie, but I'd suggest talking to dan about hoe to make the jigs and see if there is anything to them other than being squared.

My guess is that if it were so easy to do, then more than 2 people would have the correct setups to rebuild the tops back to factory spec.

It's been said many times that rebuilding these tops and making them fit correctly in the end so there is no excess wind noise or leaks, and no excess strain put on the top when fitted on the car so that the locks last a long time and don't spontaneously release.

Look up daninc's username and some of his threads where he really goes over all of this himself and you'll see that it's a LOT tougher than it seems.

Michael

[yazhound]

Originally Posted by UrQuattro

Okie, but I'd suggest talking to dan about hoe to make the jigs and see if there is anything to them other than being squared.

My guess is that if it were so easy to do, then more than 2 people would have the correct setups to rebuild the tops back to factory spec.

It's been said many times that rebuilding these tops and making them fit correctly in the end so there is no excess wind noise or leaks, and no excess strain put on the top when fitted on the car so that the locks last a long time and don't spontaneously release.

Look up daninc's username and some of his threads where he really goes over all of this himself and you'll see that it's a LOT tougher than it seems.

Michael

Michael,
I am excited with the prospect of having mine done. Tomorrow to the mech shop for a once over. Hoping that nothing too major to sort out or I will have to wait on the top. The first po (and original owner) had it sitting for years after hip sx, the second began sorting and then needed cash for his shop. So she came to me and it will hopefully remain my daily. So far so good, but the top is in bad shape - have been in light rain without leaks but nothing very heavy. It is noisy as all get out.

Who installed the seals for you? The shop I am going to comes well recommended and and hoping that he can do the seals should I need em. Interestingly, Dan suggested I hold off on seals until the top is done to see if maybe I will not need them in the short run. ( says a lot considering he sells them!) Well cheers ~ yaz

[craigyirush]

Another question - and maybe Dan can chime in here - how long should a rebuilt top stay tight and adjusted, especially if it's driven daily on bad roads (they're terrible here in LA) and taken off the car when the sun shines?

[yazhound]

I sent my top off to Dan last Monday. Wednesday night at 8:30 he called and left a msg to confirm that he received it along with his number. I called him Thursday night at 7pm and he was actually working on it at that time. He answered my questions without rushing, and said that it will be shipped out today, Monday. Cannot wait to get it back on and see what further seal work may need to be done. Hopefully not a lot.....

As to final fitting, Dan noted that I should leave it exposed to the sun for a period to get it warmed and stretched to the top... like fitting in a new pair of shoes...

yaz

[Gemni911]

In discussions with Dan P. he has said that rebulding one of these tops correctly is more difficult than rebuilding a 911 engine. I was skeptical until I did some checking and had it confirmed multiple times. He is one of the best around and really knows his stuff. I bought seals from him and will send my top ASAP when the paintwork on the car is done (saving my pennies up).

[Jdub]

I designed and built bicycle framesets (steel) for over 10 years for a local shop. There was the expression that the first five framesets an apprentice built are free - that is your learning, your Beta trial.

Nobody on this 'Board can rebuild a top like Dan can. This is because 1) He has the specific toolset and 2) Has exceeded the Beta trial and so has the brains and hands to do this by rote.

I despair when I hear folks talk about how they did it - you don't even know. Targa owners break down into two groups - either cheap and unknowledgeable about the top, or smart enough to know to send to Dan.