help! do i need to replace??? (cv pics)

[adamnitti]

here are a few pics from one of the inner cages from one of my cv joints:





the ball bearings look intact. does it look like i need to replace this joint? (notice the pitting...)

please advise-

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Adam Nitti
ajnitti@mindspring.com
www.adamnitti.com
'85 911 Carrera Coupe

[Nickshu]

Adam,

If I had the joints out, and that were on my car, I would replace. It may function fine for some time with that pitting, but the pitting will slowly wear away on the bearing with every turn. SO, unless you are short on cash, I would get a new one.
Others may have a differing opinion, but I generally would rather repair something once when I have it out, rather than have to go back in later.

Good Luck.
Nick.

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_ _ __ _ _
Nick Shumaker
1982 911SC Coupe
nickshu@yahoo.com

[82SC]

Just did mine and mine were a tad worse then that.

But because of $$$ as Nick said I put them back in.

Next time they are out (~10-20,000) I will definately replace. Complete joints go for 80 a piece....but what is the worst thing that can happen. My joints will get worse (they already need to be replaced) and I will be warned of impending CV joint failure with some clicking in the back...and correct me if I am wrong, but what is the worst thing that can happen. The joint pitting gets worse...and my CV's start seizing (hence the clicking) but I cannot think of any disasterous outcomes.

I know not the best approach...but cash is tight...but if you have the moolah replace...I may just get brand new rebuilt axles when I do my engine rebuild...

[Pillow]

Pitting? That is odd. I have done my fair share of CVs and never seen pitting. Usually the CV gets wear in groves from the ball bearings betting on the sides and that produces the CV slop.

I think if there is no rotational play back and forth go ahead and keep them... Unless you have the money to spend.

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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

[rfix'n]

I just replaced mine but the pitting was far worse than those pics. I'm no expert here but believe you could reuse those especially if you put the outer cv on the inner side of the shaft and the inner cv on the outer side of the shaft. Of course that assumes you get the inner race back in the joint the same way that it came out. Reversing it would defeat the purpose, I think, although that is getting to complicated for my simple mind to picture where the bearing would ride! Good Luck

[Greg K]

turn them around so the ball bearing is runing on the other side

[adamnitti]

ironically enough, the one joint that had no apparent pitting, scoring, etc., is the one joint that is virtually impossible to move freely. i don't have a lot of confidence in it... also, i don't know how this happened, but the shaft, itself on that joint's side is also pitted in the area where the boot covers. it's probably nothing to worry about, but it sure looks a little strange. i think i may just order 4 of these @#$% things and not worry anymore. and yes, cash is very tight, too. :-(

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Adam Nitti
ajnitti@mindspring.com
www.adamnitti.com
'85 911 Carrera Coupe

[adamnitti]

by the way, how in the world do i 'turn them around' and know they are positioned correctly to run on the 'other' side? forgive my ignorance here.

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Adam Nitti
ajnitti@mindspring.com
www.adamnitti.com
'85 911 Carrera Coupe

[Superman]

Well, my mind is pretty simple too, which is helpful at times. It is my strong belief that switching inners and outers will not do the trick. The joints need to go on the other side of the car. Both CVs from the passenger side will have identical wear. Both CVs from teh drivers' side will also have identical wear, but the wear will be on opposite opposite sides of the race surfaces, compared to the passenger side ones.

I just cleaned and repacked mine, and they were at least as bad as the ones pictured above, but not nearly as bad as Rob's very memorable photos. I agree that the best thing is to replace them, but I did not. Yes, they will give plenty of warning. Yes, you should reverse them so that they run on fresh surfaces, rather than those pitted spots.

And finally, the grease controversy. Some folks thing one 8oz tube of grease is enough. I use about twice that amount, as do many of the mechanics I have trusted over the years. I virtually pack the boot FULL, in addition to the joint. Be sure to get grease everywhere in that joint. And use the special CV grease and Preferably) new boots.

Worn CV joints often click and clack, but they can also rumble and vibrate.

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'83 SC

[82SC]

So my question is the amount of grease...
I was told half a tube per joint...there is no way to get 1/2 a tube into the joint unless the amount includes the grease in the papertowel, on the floor, in your hair and between your teeth.

I got through about 1 and 1/4 tubes for all 4 joints...but now I am thinking people are packing their boots...that is alot of grease...and mine were not packed full when I took mine apart...

discussion?

[Evans, Marv]

Adam:
If I remember correctly, I think you can reverse the wear on your CV joints if you flip sides. That is, put the driver side on the passenger side & visa versa. Keep the inside joints in & the outsides out. The best thing of course is to replace them, although you can probably get a lot more wear out of them by exchanging sides. You'll know when they need to be replaced. I bought a good pair of axles w/ good CV joints & 3 good boots on ebay. I think I paid about $90 for them.

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Marv Evans
'72 911E

[adamnitti]

it sure is hard to justify buying 4 cv joints for $320 when you can get 2 rebuilt axles with boots and everything for $330!!!!

now i don't know which way to go. part of me wants to finish the job i started, and the other part wants to take advantage of the value in buying the rebuilds. can't believe the price difference is so close. not to mention i already spent $80 on new boots & gaskets.

geez!!!!!

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Adam Nitti
ajnitti@mindspring.com
www.adamnitti.com
'85 911 Carrera Coupe

[Superman]

Well, I'm not gonna beat a dead horse (at least I won't admit to it on the Internet), but I would be very comfortable reinstalling those pictured CV joints and deferring the replacement expense another year or two. I think you'll have no trouble with them.

I don't know whether it's important to keep the inner joints on the inside and vice versa, but I strongly suggest the passenger side joints be switched wiht the drivers' side joints.

And finally, hoping the grease controversy does not split this BBS and start a World War, I am on "The Side" that believe in copious amounts of grease. I favor virtually FILLING the boot with grease. Half a tube is definitely insufficient. IMHO.

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'83 SC

[john walker's workshop]

really now, those races are history. seriously, you souldn't re-use those. that would considered a hack job. one pit 1/2 that size in either race is reason to replace. do you want the joint to break on the road way far from home? they're basically a bearing. would you re-use a wheel bearing that looked like that?

[adamnitti]

i'm gonna pick up 4 new joints today and finish what i started... i'll feel much better knowing each one is new. thanks everyone for your help! it just sucks these things are so pricey... :-)

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Adam Nitti
ajnitti@mindspring.com
www.adamnitti.com
'85 911 Carrera Coupe

[Pillow]

Use the WHOLE tube per CV. I think the tube is either 6 or 8 ounces.

Yes, this is black death grease and is nightmare to clean off your hands. Wear nasty clothes.

Why the pits? I always see wear groves from the ball bearing pressure, but no pits. Is this from debris in the grease from torn boots?

Damn, I hate CVs!

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Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

[john walker's workshop]

i just did a cv pack on an 85 carrera and they were pitted just like yours. no broken boots either. just had been ignored since birth. the grease gets old and firm and is pushed to the outsides of the race (slot). the balls then spend most of their time moving in a fairly dry area where they wear thru the case hardening and eventually wear a notch and later the race starts to break up (the pit). cv knocking comes and goes at first, due to the balls getting occasional lubrication by being forced into the grease by stretching the axle out on a lift, or whatever else lengthens it. bumps, hard stop, etc. SWEPCO has an awesome cv grease. compared to the auto parts store variety, it has much more body and supposedly doesn't firm up.

[adamnitti]

i bought valvoline synthetic. hope that is good enough. seems to be their top of the line grease. i made sure it met the nlgi spec that warren mentioned earlier...

my symptoms have been a very minor 'knocking' sound from the left side that comes and goes when cold, and an annoying vibration under hard acceleration that has stumped me since i got my car. i'm hoping that this fixes all that.

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Adam Nitti
ajnitti@mindspring.com
www.adamnitti.com
'85 911 Carrera Coupe

[adamnitti]

one more thing i forgot to ask: only one set of cv bolts that i took off had washers on them. should i have them on all of them? if so, can i just match what i have at the hardware store, or are they some certain spec that is critical??? thanks-

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Adam Nitti
ajnitti@mindspring.com
www.adamnitti.com
'85 911 Carrera Coupe

[jlex]

I hadn't even thought of repacking the CV joints on my '85 since I bought it last spring. Perhaps it's time to do so. Can anyone point me to a tech article on the proper procedure? Thanks.
jlex.