Anybody hear of a "Carrera ST"?

[Dueller]

Supposedly a limited edition 911 Carrera built for the Italian market? Ran across a reference in, of all places, Wikipedia. Any pics?

From Wiki:

"In 1984, Porsche also introduced the M491 option. Officially called the Supersport in the UK, it was commonly known as the "Turbo-look". It was a style that resembled the Porsche 930 Turbo with wide wheel arches and the distinctive "tea tray” tail. It featured the stiffer turbo suspension and the superior turbo braking system as well as the wider turbo wheels. Sales of the Supersport were particularly strong for its first two years in the United States because the desirable 930 was not available.

For the European market in Italy a very exclusive version was introduced by the Porsche agent, ten Carrera model ST (Senza Turbo) were produced to commemorate the myth of the 10th anniversary of the Carrera RS model, revised engine developing 255 bhp (190 kW; 259 PS) they were all "Grand Prix white" with red or blue "Carrera ST" decal on each side of the car and blue or red wheels, the logo carrera ST (and 3.2 on the boot gril) on their famous duck tail, and a special engraved plate on the dash board, the serial N° were 490-499."

[kycarguy 935]

Never heard of it. Will have to read up on it. Thanks.

[Slow911]

I found this in my files.....could be the type of car you're talking about, not sure
the original color of this car was white

[totle]

In italian. "Senza" means "without". So I guess this was a non-turbo car
Sounds cool, only 10 produced.
Interresting...

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Slow911

I found this in my files.....could be the type of car you're talking about, not sure
the original color of this car was white

That appears to be a longhood/longhood conversion. From the context of the Wiki quiote (which was apparently lifted from another article on a factory site), these were apparently special ordered as a promotion and were mid '80's turbo look NA cars that had some engine mods and special graphics for an Italian market/promotion. Sorta a predecessor to the club sport maybe?

Would be interesting to see if any are still around...

[jimbauman]

This is for sale in Hemmings:

Hemmings Motor News: Porsche 911ST Classified Listings

The high bid at auction was 275K Euros, but not enough to make the reserve!

JB

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by jimbauman

This is for sale in Hemmings:

Hemmings Motor News: Porsche 911ST Classified Listings

JB

That's a totally different beast all together. The ST model that was made between the production of the 911R and the Carrera RS is pretty well documented.

[brett75]

Hello everybody, I just want to give you some info concerning the model Carrera ST 3.2 (ST for Senza Turbo) Without Turbo.
In fact in Aug/sept 1983 when the SC has been left and the new 3.2 pointing his nose, it was just 10 years after the mythic RS 2.7. In Italy ten nostalgic of this wonderful car decided with the agent In Milano (I presume) to issue a new RS in the spirit they decided to call it ST (just one letter difference from R to S and from S to T) They took the basic .2 which was as light as the SC, and much more performant that the official figures (for Europe 231 HP) in fact it was more probably around 240hpp, they put down the engine and polished everything they can do, plus a little modification in the Motronic first generation (which was welded as that time), and finaly the exhaust banana was lighted of his content. The result was between 250/255hp . Finally they add the ducktail and a 3.2 logo on the boot lead as in the past, the wheels (telephone dial) were painted in red or blue and the stripes also red or blue were sticked on the sides. All these ten cars were "Grand Prix Weiss" and a commemorative plate was fixed on the glove box.
I hope these explainations will be of interrest for you. I post also a picture of the Beast which is Number 9/10 and has a mileage of only 108.000kms after 28 years, not bad at all.
Best regards.
Brett 75

[Geronimo '74]

Thanks for the info, Brett!

[SAM DACOSTA]

I learn something new on PP daily. Thanks for sharing.

[McLovin]

I have a very rare Carrera SS (Senza Supercharger) and an even more rare Carrera SV8.

[Grady Clay]

Brett,

Thank you for posting.
Looks great at 108,000 km.

Can you please post more images of the unique features.
Of interest are the commemorative plate, engine modifications and any others.

What is your VIN?
I calculate WPO ZZZ 91 Z DS 100498 or is it other?
Is your engine number 63Dzxxx? Is the ‘z’ = ‘9’?
What is your engine type? It is stamped near the engine number. Is the engine type different from 930/10?

Did you remove the red paint from the wheels or are these wheels a different set?

How many of the ten cars can you find?
Are they all as well preserved as yours?

Don’t let anyone tell you different.
Ten Factory specials are indeed unique.

Best,
Grady

By Google Translate
Con Google Translate

Brett,

Grazie per la pubblicazione.
Sembra grande a 108,000 km.

Potete per favore pubblicare più immagini delle caratteristiche uniche.
Di notevole interesse sono il piatto commemorativo, modifiche al motore e tutti gli altri.

Qual è il tuo VIN?
Ho calcolato WPO ZZZ 91 Z DS 100498 o è altro?
Il tuo motore numero 63Dzxxx? È la 'z' = '9 '?
Qual è il tuo tipo di motore? Si è stampigliato vicino al numero del motore. È il tipo di motore diverso da 930/10?

Hai rimuovere la vernice rossa dalle ruote o sono queste ruote un diverso insieme?

Quanti dei dieci macchine si può trovare?
Sono tutti così conservato come il vostro?

Non permettere a nessuno di dirti diverse.
Dieci speciali Factory sono veramente unici.

Best,
Grady

[pplkook]

Originally Posted by brett75

Hello everybody, I just want to give you some info concerning the model Carrera ST 3.2 (ST for Senza Turbo) Without Turbo.
In fact in Aug/sept 1983 when the SC has been left and the new 3.2 pointing his nose, it was just 10 years after the mythic RS 2.7. In Italy ten nostalgic of this wonderful car decided with the agent In Milano (I presume) to issue a new RS in the spirit they decided to call it ST (just one letter difference from R to S and from S to T) They took the basic .2 which was as light as the SC, and much more performant that the official figures (for Europe 231 HP) in fact it was more probably around 240hpp, they put down the engine and polished everything they can do, plus a little modification in the Motronic first generation (which was welded as that time), and finaly the exhaust banana was lighted of his content. The result was between 250/255hp . Finally they add the ducktail and a 3.2 logo on the boot lead as in the past, the wheels (telephone dial) were painted in red or blue and the stripes also red or blue were sticked on the sides. All these ten cars were "Grand Prix Weiss" and a commemorative plate was fixed on the glove box.
I hope these explainations will be of interrest for you. I post also a picture of the Beast which is Number 9/10 and has a mileage of only 108.000kms after 28 years, not bad at all.
Best regards.
Brett 75

Why aren't the phone dials red? Was hoping to see that, I kinda like the phone dials...

[whiterabbit]

What a great and unusual car. Must be the most desirable Carrera ever. More so than a CS and Speedster I would think.

Brett does it have electric widows? A cloth interior?

[brett75]

Grady,
The serial N° is WPOZZZ91ZES100498
Type 911330
Engine 93020-63E Box 91567-73E
Paint L908

The Interior Is Blue Porshe cloth/skai
I kept the grey color for the wheels when the car was re-painted las summer, as the previous owner, question of discretion I supposed. (but I'm still thinking about!)
For the performance its much more punchy than a regular 3.2 from 4,000 tr/mn
And in top speed I think it's about 260/270 but the rev. stopped at his max.

Concerning the 10 cars, I've been told that 2 are now in Japan (probably in containers!!!)
and one In US, for the remaining 6 , I don't know but after 28 years
I post one picture of the plate on the glove box
Best regards

[brett75]

I'm just looking on the picture and it's difficult to read what is written on the plate:
Carrera ST
Italia Speciale 260CV
Commemorazione 10 anni del RS
1973-1983
Serie limitata N° 09/10

[bkreigsr]

yes they made a ST in 85.... and no, my 85 was not one of them
Bill K

[Grady Clay]

Brett,

Thank you so much.
This is invaluable information.
Even the Porsche Spec Book, Ludvigsen Excellence and Barth Porsche Book don’t have this information.
Please help make it as complete as possible.

Do you have (or can you get) a Porsche ‘Certificate of Authenticity’ (CoA) for your 911?
Please post an image.
Are there decals on the underside of the hood? Other?
Can you remove the passenger-side knee-pad and post an image of the ‘chassis build number’?

Is there any way to tell the original Porsche red for the ’telefon’ wheels?

Brett, can you find information from the Italian importer or the selling dealer(s)?
Was there a ‘window sticker’ for your car?
What does the ‘Warranty Book’ show?
Was there unique ‘Service Information’ or spare parts list?
It would unusual for Porsche to not have a part number for the “Carrera ST” decal and other.
With a (seemingly) unique engine type number, it would uncharacteristic for Porsche to not list the specifications.
I’m sure this will be a challenge but it is a worthwhile adventure.
If we don’t record this information now, it will be lost forever.

Please help fill-in the other information.

EDIT in RED
To summarize thus far:
911 Carrera ST
Model year 1984
Type 911330 (Normal M491 ‘Turbo-look’ type?NO In the prior system this would be 1983 RoW coupe.)
VIN WPOZZZ91ZES100490 to WPOZZZ91ZES100499 (Normal RoW sequence ...0001 to ...4033.)
Build number (Need to find sequence.)
Engine Type 930/30 typo, should read 930/20. (New number, not previously reported anywhere I can find. Specifications unknown.NO) (930/20 = Normal RoW 3.2 Carrera)
Engine numbers 63Exxxxx to 63Ezzzzz. (What number range?) (Is the first digit unique?)
Transmission Type 915/67 (Normal production number.)
Transmission number 73Exxxxx to 73Ezzzzz. (What number range) (Is the first digit unique?) (Is there “12” for LSD?)
Paint L908, Grand Prix White.
Interior: “Blue Porsche cloth/skai” (Need clarification.) (Is there a code for this?)
My old eyes jumped a line seeing a ‘20’ as ‘30’.

Brett, please help fill-in the missing numbers and info.




This ’84 Carrera ST raises the question: Are there other small ‘Special Production’ series of 911s?
If the Italian importer can get Porsche A.G to build these, so can others.
We know of the twenty 1984 911SC/RS Type 954 and its unique 930/18 engine (basically ‘homologation specials’).
In 1986, Porsche Cars GB was responsible for Porsche developing the 911 Turbo SE (the more widely produced ‘Slant Nose’).
If there are others, what are they? Where are they?


Amazingly it took Jim (Pelican Dualler) finding a wiki post to uncover this where the best Porsche researchers (Ludvigsen and Barth) omitted it.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

Originally Posted by bkreigsr

yes they made a ST in 85....
Bill K

References please.

Best,
Grady

[bkreigsr]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

References please. Best,Grady

when I was researching the VIN on the 85 I bought in Sept, I came across a set of VINs dedicated to the ST's. I think the first 15 or so production numbers - I'll see if I can find my notes.
Bill K
(I think the notes said there was also a ST RS model with productin numbers less than 10)