Does Ethanol negate the need for injector cleaners

[cmcfaul]

Does the Ethanol in our gas keep the fuel system cleaner thus having a positive effect on metal, internal, fuel related components?

Just curious

Chris
73 911 E

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by cmcfaul

Does the Ethanol in our gas keep the fuel system cleaner thus having a positive effect on metal, internal, fuel related components?

Just curious

Chris
73 911 E

Supposedly, after you've converted your car to run on ethanol (by replacing all non-ethanol compatible fuel lines, seals and uprating the fuel delivery by 25-30%), the fuel filter will clog after 600 miles because of the "cleaning action" and should be replaced.

Ethanol is hygroscopic, so holds water and tends to make ferrous metal parts rust if the fuel sits. The consensus seems to be that high concentrations will attack seals that were never intended for alcohol.

The stoichiometric ratio of 14.7 is only correct for gasoline; it is 14.0-14.1 for E10 and 9.765 for E85 (the E85 "max power rich" ratio is 6.975!!) - hence the need for the fuel system to deliver 25-30% more fuel. E85 in standard engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I'm not a professional automotive engineer, but the suggestion in that article that you can convert your carburetted car to run on ethanol by leaving the choke on seems somewhat unsatisfactory to me...

[tharbert]

A positive effect? Yes and no...mostly "no" on your 73. Yes, ethanol is a primary ingredient in most low end injector cleaners and gas dryers. Even the beloved Berryman's B12 has 15-20% propanol although it's mostly Xylene. In the end, ethanol is corrosive, harmful to plastics not engineered for exposure, and contains less energy than a corresponding volume of unblended gas. Those factors coupled with its hygroscopic nature pretty much offset it's positive qualities. And we won't even go into phase separation issues and it's tendency to make its own brown sludge/varnish. If E15 becomes the new standard, it may well force a retrofit of all vintage autos as spuggy suggests.

By the way, from what I've read, 10% ethanol is about the highest amount tolerated by engines not designed for its use. If you then add anything that includes more alcohol like a dryer, you could be doing much more damage than good. Just a thought to keep in mind...

[HarryD]

Some interesting reading:

Ethanol Fuels

Effects of Ethanol in gas

Do a search for Ethanol and you will find many threads onthe subject.

Bottom line, 10+% Ethanol is not a good thing for cars which were not designed from the get/go to run the stuff.

[cmcfaul]

I usually dump a can of injector cleaner into the gas tank once a year (gumout or Sea foam). Is this not needed any more?

Chris

73 911 E

[KNS]

I would still run some injector cleaner through at least once a year.

[dshepp806]

annual for me, too.

Doyle

[joeblow]

On the flip side, ethanol is a great anti-detonate so if you properly fuel up you can get away with more compression, boost etc... Want to make a ton of power....run 13:1+ compression and 100 alcohol or very high boost. Having played with the stuff it can be quite nice.

It all comes down to proper set-up.

As far as injector cleaners, yes they work but one thing to be cautious of with alcohol is its lack of lubricity. You may want to run a bit of Lucas oil or similar to offset this issue with ethanol, the injectors, mechanical injection pumps and electronic fuel pumps will wear out faster without it. Carb guys do not have to worry.