Car not started in several years...what to do?

[B'dole]

I have a '73 911T that has embarrassingly not been started in about 5 years. Engine was running well when parked, had a rebuilt MFI distributor 7 years ago. Brake hydraulics were shot though, had trouble bleeding out the fluid effectively back then even with a power bleeder.

The only preparation for this hibernation was siphoning out 3/4 of the fuel tank. Parked in an outside covered carport in central NC.

Have some time to give it attention now and wondering where to start. Do I have to disconnect each part of the fuel system and flush, or can I fill up the tank with fresh gas and maybe some Swepco or RedLine fuel system cleaner?

Should I bleed the brakes dry with the power bleeder and then start with new fluid? Any way to tell if the master cylinder needs replacing?

Thanks!

[sc_rufctr]

The engine before trying to start it... Assuming your car has CIS.

1. Drain all fuel from the tank and put in fresh gas.
2. Replace oil filter and oil.
3. Replace Fuel filter and check air filter.
4. Check spark plugs and gaps. Replace if needed. (I would)
5. Check fuel lines for leaks especially around crimped connections. Look for cracked and perished rubber lines.
6. Make sure battery is fully charged.
7. Turn engine over for about 30 seconds with ignition system disabled. Pause for 30 seconds.
(There are few different ways to do this. I do it by disabling the MSD ignition system in my car with the "kill Switch" anti theft option.)
8. Turn engine over for another 30 seconds with ignition system disabled. The reason you do this is to build up some oil pressure in the system before starting the engine for real.
9. Enable the ignition system. And then "miaow" the injection system... (You do this by lifting the air measuring plate while the ignition is on for about 10 to 15 seconds)

CHECK FOR FUEL LEAKS AGAIN.

10. Then try and start the car for real. Have a slave battery handy.

Brakes...

1. Remove all wheels after securely raising the car.
2. Bleed with power bleeder as normal. I wouldn't bleed them dry. Nothing to gain by doing so. Bleeding normally will flush old fluid anyway. If in doubt go around the car two times.

You won't know the condition of the master cylinder until you get the car started and the brakes bled.
Short drive and see how she stops. And take it from there.

Good luck with getting her going.

I'm sure she'll need her valves adjusted but first things first get her going and see how the engine sounds once warmed up properly.

[HarryD]

Look for posts by Grady Clay on this topic.

This thread may be helpful to you: Winter storage checklist?

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

Winter or long term storage.

First let me reinforce what Randy said. All automobiles fair best when regularly driven. If that can only be a nice dry winter day every week or so, then so be it. The key is keeping or getting it dry and absolutely no exposure to salt (or Magnesium Chloride.)

Putting your 911 back in service.

This is just as critical as the storage technique.
Put in new hot plugs. I would use BP5ES but some recommend hot recessed-tip plugs (like some race plugs) to prevent fowling. You want to do everything possible to have the engine fire and run properly on the first try.
Treat it lust like a brand new engine. It will need careful break-in.

Oil the cylinders, cams, etc. and turn over the engine with a wrench on the crank pulley. Turn two or more revolutions and make sure there isn’t hydraulic lock.
Install fresh fuel high octane fuel with some 2-stroke oil in it.
Make sure the fuel system is working properly.
Make sure the ignition system is working properly.
Some use a spare muffler and cat bypass for start-up as it will get oiled.
Start and run at as low RPM possible for 15 seconds. Let sit for 15 minutes. Repeat, extending the running time but keep RPM low. Gradually bring up to normal running.
Never run the engine at high RPM.
For first drive you want to give it some power but not run it longer than a couple of minutes without a “rest.” Again, extend the running time with increasing high power (not high RPM.)
The theory here is that there are localized high friction areas that get hot during this re-break-in process. You don’t want anything to get too high temperature and induce failure or have exceedingly high ware. When under power, the rings seal (mostly) from cylinder pressure. You want them to re-seal asap but not get overheated. High RPM will overheat the rings in a flash and the high friction can over stress the ring lands in the pistons. Some of the other areas are the cam-to-rocker surfaces, chain links, rocker-to-shaft, chain idler sprockets, and more.

This situation is far more delicate than a new engine brake-in procedure. Treat this just like a fresh engine but extend the break-in and be even more careful.



What to do with a 911 that wasn’t preserved for storage?

Drain the fuel from the drain port in the tank. Don’t run the fuel pump. If necessary (probably) clean the tank and outlet filter screen
Buy a new battery.
Change the oil and filter, clean sump plate.
Remove the sparkplugs and inspect with a light or bore scope. If the cylinders are rusty don’t turn the engine, go to Plan B.
Remove the intake valve covers and inspect for rust. If the cam is rusty, go to Plan B.
If you suspect there is corrosion in the oil sump tank, remove it and clean or replace it. Those rust flakes go directly to your bearings without a filter.
If everything appears OK, proceed as above but even more carefully.




Plan B and what to do with a 911 that has been stored for several (many) years?

Don’t try and start it! You may do far more damage to it in one minute than 100K mi. of driving.
In most cases it is best to just remove the engine and trans and do a maintenance overhaul.
Often the brake master cylinder has failed (or will after a few applications of the brakes.)
Old tires should be replaces with new.
Get the old battery out asap.
Electrical connections may be an issue and need to be cleaned.
Fuel and ignition system components will need cleaning or replacement.
Chain tensioners that sit for long are an issue for any engine.




What to do after your 911 is back in service.

Nice extended calm tours will get everything friendly with adjacent parts.
Change oil regularly. Check the sump screen for anything unusual.
Use higher than necessary octane fuel until the rings are fully seated.
Keep an eye on brake fluid level and possible fluid in the pedal assembly.
Inspect for any signs of tire failure, inboard and out.
As things change, bring them back into spec. If something fails (wheel bearing, CV, door latch, window regulator, hood lift, etc. – fix it. You want to keep your 911 in top form.
If it ever seems to loose power under acceleration – STOP. Find out why. You never want to have a rod bearing failure turn into a rod failure, broken case, and worse.




I’ll reiterate what many have said: The best and most reliable 911s are those that are driven regularly. Those that sit for extended periods are destined to have more problems. If you store your 911 out of personal necessity or adverse driving conditions, it is worth the effort to store it properly.

Best,
Grady

BTW, here are some links:
Storing and preserving an engine - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

[B'dole]

Thanks a lot Peter and Harry,

This was just the type of information I was hoping to find out, even if it's not what I wanted to hear. Grady's checklist sounds like many weekends of work, some beyond my expertise.

I should clarify a few points. First, it is the MFI engine management system, not the CIS. Don't know if that makes a difference, although I've read here that the MFI distributor does not like to sit for a long time.

In the 500 miles before the car started sitting, I did the following:
1. Changed oil and filter
2. Replaced fuel and air filter
3. Replaced rubber fuel lines (all were cracked and leaking!)
4. Added fire extinguisher and mount (see #3)
5. Replaced spark plugs
6. Adjusted valves

So far I'm thinking I can handle:
-fresh tank of high octane fuel with RedLine SI-1...change fuel filter after the first tank
-replace oil to remove water/rust...change the "old" filter which has 500 miles on it after the first drive
-battery is still good, amazingly (I've used it as a backup in my unreliable daily driver!)
-crank engine w/o starting to circulate oil
-attempt to flush brakes with new fluid
-drive very gently through first tank, swap master cylinder and rubber brake lines if brakes are still bad

Anything else I'm missing that it absolutely mandatory?

[HarryD]

Listen to Grady. He has forgotten more stuff than many remember.

At a minimum, I would also drain the fuel and replace and flush the fuel lines.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

The engine before trying to start it... Assuming your car has CIS.

No. He says it's MFI in his post. At least here in the states.

Only 73.5T had CIS. Don't know about Australia.

Anyway, everything but your #9 is still valid - that's only CIS relative.



As others said, do a search, Grady has actually talked about resurrecting an MFI car.

[B'dole]

No worries, I updated my signature to make it clearer in the future which car I have.

Regarding #9, is there a way to "miaow" an MFI system? This sounds like a CIS-specific thing to prime a little fuel into the motor.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by B'dole

No worries, I updated my signature to make it clearer in the future which car I have.

Regarding #9, is there a way to "miaow" an MFI system? This sounds like a CIS-specific thing to prime a little fuel into the motor.

You sure can't meeow it; TOTALLY different system; it's mechanical injection.

I'll see if I can find Grady's post...


Edit: well I looked a bit, and there are a lot of posts. Don't have time right now to go through them. Try later.

[pete3799]

After you drain the fuel tank remove the filter (screen) that's in the tank (outlet) and clean it.

[BoxsterGT]

When we bring a 911 out of long term (many years) storage, we drain out all the old fluids, pull the plugs, put in fresh fuel and....pre-lube the motor:

We do this with an old oil pressure switch adapted to a 1/4in air line fitting and pressurized 5-gal paint bucket and 0W- or 5W- oil. With a regulator set at 35-40 lbs we fill the motor w 6 qts of oil in the case & put the rest in the tank.

We then turn the motor over by hand a few times, then by the starter a few times, then fit fresh plugs & tune-up items as needed and run it.

I do like Grady's suggestion of checking the bores for rust with a scope, though that means it must be turned over by hand a few times.

Just like to be as cautious as possible w one of those very expensive motors.

Len

[cool5]

Bob, First Viagra and now Porsche, I knew you were one of us, How is it driving with the bad wing?

Apologies in advance.

[B'dole]

Sportomatic saves the day.

[B'dole]

Well it took a few months but she came to life today, almost without a hiccup.

I did the following:
-changed oil
-drained gas
-added Redline SI-1
-bled brakes thoroughly
-installed a proper battery in the smuggler's box
-wired a kill switch
-replaced engine compartment fuel hoses and fuel breather hoses
-re-installed charcoal canister (previous owner had disabled)

Incredibly it started on the first try...did I mention it's been five years?

Smoked out the exhaust for about 20 minutes, heavy at first then lighter, and now just a trickle.

The brakes were ok at first, but then the pedal went almost to the floor after about 5 miles of neighborhood driving. Luckily I was ready. Since the brakes were well bled, is this the master cylinder?

So good to be driving it again!

[Drisump]

Could be but have you had a look around the car? The brake fluid could be leaking from anywhere. After five years without turning a wheel or changing brake fluid, it sounds like you've done well already . My thinking is a complete check up and replace of all brake seals would be in order...don't like the idea of not having the ability to slow down when I choose. Cheers

[Hugh R]

Congrats

I don't drive mine every week but I try to run it to operating temp at least once a week, same thing with my Honda generator which I load test with the wife's 1200 watt hair drier at least once a month for 15 minutes.

[LakeCleElum]

Good advice here for sure......One more thing about the brakes. Sounds like your m/c is questionable and should be replaced. When doing that, pull the flexible lines to each caliper and make sure they are not plugged. They swell from the inside, get totally blocked and don't allow the pistons in the caliper to retract......G'luck.

[B'dole]

Since you mention it, the wheels were very hard to turn by hand. I thought it was pad/rotor rust, but perhaps it's a blockage. Bled the system recently, and the fluid stream was weaker than other cars I've bled. Will check for leaks, too. Thanks for the help guys.

[Winter]

I'd replace the master cylinder, rebuild the calipers and replace the brake lines and pads. Cool that the car started right up. Don't want to waste that by putting her into a tree when you can't stop!