1967 T - Not a barn find but another one will be saved!
 

Hi everyone!

For many years I knew a guy that had 2 911's (a 2.0 T from 1967 and a Targa 1985).
He first bought the SWB, disassembled and latter the Targa as a donor for a future project.
The years passed and the man never had time to start the project. Luckily he doesn't have internet...
Last week, after a few visits last years, I decided to make a deal with the guy and bought the two cars.
Every time I was visiting him, cars looked worst, more abandoned and specially the targa that although was not complete when he bought it, was serving some more cars...

Living on an island lost in the middle of the ocean, with 270.000 inhabitants, it is not everyday that you have the opportunity to buy one of the two SWB's on the island! Specially when it is going to be the only one because the other is living soon to the continent...

As the Targa doesn’t belong to this board (IMO), lets talk about the SWB!

Is is a 1967 T model, has been converted to post 1976 look - unfortunately!
From a first inspection, car is not complete but it doesn't seem too serious... on my optimistic point of view!

VIN 11820296
Engine number: 2080297
901/03 10537
Transmission: 228027

The car has been paint around 1993 and since then, stored.
At first sight, the body looks pretty clean. I will wait till a better inspection to make the final verdict.

To convert it back to stock condition I will have to change allot. Front bonnet is fiberglass as well as the rear and front bumpers. Front cross panel has to be changed to long hood latch, front fenders have to be changed, I would like to eliminate the flares (that would be the last thing regarding bodywork), etc...
The under tray has an odd shape... not sure yet... but maybe it is because of the work done in the front on the conversion...
I have to admit that my first thoughts, when I bought the cars, were the same as the previous owner's... But every day I go to the garage and I a start looking at the SWB, inspecting parts and every detail, I always end up thinking, "Will I destroy this car??... Of course not!!!"
My priority was the Targa project (meanwhile, I decided to build a rally car with it) but now I am starting to think that the SWB will be first...

It is not going to be a concourse car but a solid possible, every day drive, with some improvements, specially those that don't affect too much the originality.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296963095.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296963120.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296963153.jpg

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296963240.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296963277.jpg

Anyone noticed the sporty seats?! :)http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296963829.jpg

More...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296963912.jpg

Another area with some rust but doesn't look too bad...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296964032.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296964068.jpg

Good luck,
I love to see old ones come back to life.

Any comments are very well come, specially on VIN, engine and transmission numbers... I have PET but it doesn't have the info about this cars, like options sold, color code, etc., right?
I am honest, I only used PET 2 or 3 times, I didn't really explore it...

Is there any data base where I can find some more info about my car?

Looks like a decently solid car as a candidate to be put back on the road. I don't think they made the "T" model in 1967. Good luck on finding SWB front fenders and eliminating the flair on the back fenders. I've never seen door panels like those in your picture, and the seats are from a later model. It's been pretty much disassembled, so the good part is you won't have to disassemble too much more. The bad part is you have a lot to put together, but that's fun. After you finish it will truly be your car, because you will know every part, nut, and bolt on it.
Good luck and have fun.

swb?

Short Wheel Base

[QUOTE=Evans, Marv;5829664... I don't think they made the "T" model in 1967. [/QUOTE]

Yes, there are some other with the same opinion. As I said, I didn't do so much research over numbers etc. but on its title, it says November 1967... Don't know why...

I am thinking this is a '68. Definately '68 door panels and vin. Vin and engine # say a 911T. Euro car?

[QUOTE] I have another surprise for you. Your SWB is not a 1967 either. It is a 1968T. This is most obvious from the VIN you gave-118...- the 8 denotes 1968 model year. It may have been manufactured in '67 which explains the mixup on the title-DMVs rarely inspect or care about vehicles info. The early sequential number 0296 maybe also lucky as also by the looks of it you have an aluminum early case, which is better in terms of strength and value. The later half of the production year the factory began producing the magnesium cast engine cases. The door panels are correct for 1968 and pretty cool IMHO-I like the pocket alot better than my '69-73 version. You wanna see some whackass part prices?- look what people charge for for brand new 69-73 door pockets...I'm not sure about the seats the headrest portion looks strange but seem to match the rest of the pieces. From what I have read, a lot of the interior pieces as well as other items are one-year-only for '68, making it the most difficult to restore to perfection- solution( read, sometimes GOOD is good enough!).
Got more pictures?

Alex,

VIN 11820296
Engine number: 2080297
901/03 10537
Transmission: 228027

The numbers indicate:

VIN 11820296
1968 911T Porsche coupe # 296 out of a reported 928 built.

Engine number: 2080297
1968 911T type 901/03

901/03 10537
Agrees with the engine number.

Transmission: 228027
Correct period 1968 transmission.
Probably type 902/02.

This is almost certainly a ‘numbers matching’ Short WheelBase (SWB) ’68 built by Porsche (not Karmann).

Of the 2123 1968 911Ts built, 512 were Targas and 1211 were coupes.
Of the coupes, 928 were built at the Porsche Reutter plant and 683 by Karmann.

The 911T was homologated at a lighter weight (by 35 kg) than the 911S and was chosen for many rally and race cars.
Of course these cars were also homologated with many of the 911S, 911R and 906 race parts.
Vic Elford won the Monte Carlo Rally in one.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1297007374.jpg
© 1968 Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche K.G.
from Lewandowski, Jürgen; Porsche die Rennplakte; 2008.



I need to see what the model 911s Porsche used at the Marathon August 1967.
It raced using a Sportomatic and a 2.0 engine tuned to 175 hp.
Vic Elford, Hans Herrmann and Jochen Neerpasch won the 84-hour Nurburgring race.
That could have been (technically) a lightweight 1968 model 911T.
I’ll look.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1297005299.jpg
© 1968 Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche K.G.,
from Porsche Posters for Sale; Hundreds of Originals, no reprints, from Porsche Experts at Toad Hall Motorbooks.



Best,
Grady

PS:
I clipped or scaned these images as I don't want to sort through my collection to photo them.
Someday I scan them all.
Those interested in Porsche Posters should have the Lewandowski book, ISBN 978-3-7888-2515-3.
G.

Yes it is

Agree. This is a 68 built in 67. The "T" would have to be a euro car as the USA version dropped the "T" designation. Dash and interior pieces are 68 as well.
Still worth saving.

Despite how hard it is going to be to collect all the stock parts (I will try not to use fiberglass), because of its price, there are a few issues that I would like to have some opinions because I really don't have that much acknowledgment on early cars:

- I wonder how will the rear flares back to stock... any ideas? I have been searching the forum but didn't find anything...

- There is no tag at the door post so how will I discover the original paint code? Is there any website ?

- Grady, I have noticed that there are a lot of mentions to the Vic Elford's 911 T that won at Monte Carlo, but I didn't find a specific thread that refers the full specs of this car. Do you know where I can find more info on this?

- The seats. Also very hard to find information - pictures. I ask other members who have pictures of 68 interiors, please post some just to check if my seats really existed or if they where someone's invention...

Thanks in advance for anyone's help.

Alex, you can always depend on these guys to pin down information for you. The seats to me are a bit of a mystery. The headrest part seems like it's from a later model. I don't remember seeing any early seats with the one-piece headrest. But, the hardware, from what I can see seems from that time period. Maybe someone managed to put later seat backs on them. Since the '68 model had so many things specific to that year, don't throw anything away until you totally check it out. I have a pair of '67 seats in good condition except that the upholstery isn't correct - it's a standard sort of tuck & roll reupholstery job & that way when I got them. They don't have a headrest at all.

I have asked somebody to look up your car and can confirm the numbers you
posted are matching. As usual Grady is correct.

Your original paint code is 6806-B. This is the very desirable and attractive
Irish green.

Built October 1967, delivered Lisbon with Koni suspension and tinted glass.

andy

Wow!!!! Andy, you are a very well informed person!
Thank you very much! :)

Alex,

To summarize:
VIN 11820296 (Need chassis production number on dash, under radio opening.)
(The crayon number on the dash above the instruments has been painted over.)
Engine number: 2080297, 901/03, 10537.
Transmission: 228027 (need type number)
Original paint code is 6806-B, Irish green.
Built October 1967,
Delivered Lisbon. Portugal.
Options: Koni suspension and tinted glass. ([b]Other?[b])

Need importer, selling dealer, original owner, all POs and an official CoA.
See if you can get copies of documents from MSO on.
That will give you very complete provenance, unusual for old 911 ‘almost barn find’.

Many parts have dates cast or stamped on them.
Look on the backs of the instruments.
What are the numbers on the Webers?
I can’t wait to see the dates on the gear-pairs.

If you can collect all this information, you will have a very unique 911.
Even what you have now is remarkable.

Best,
Grady

I'd say this qualifies as a barn find. :D A relatively rust free numbers matching '68 SWB coupe is worth the effort to bring closer to original.

The front re-conversion might not be as hard as you think. You can get a brand new nose panel for under $500 from these guys:

911/912 Chassis: Restoration Design

I also have a pair of primed ready-to-paint steel '65-68 SWB fenders and a nice steel long hood that I could sell to you for $1000/all. Not sure how I'd get them to you! Maybe collect all the parts you need in the USA (weak dollar will buy you a lot) and send them all in a crate. The rear quarter flares might be hard to source, but you might want to keep the flares anyway.

Best of luck on your new project!

BTW, those seats look like some upholsterer took the original headrest-less seats and added headrests to them to make them look like the '74/newer seats. You might be able to restore those seats with a new upholstery kit.

transmission #228027 is type 902/1 from a 1966 911 or 912
I think Grady once said there were 17 possible transmissions in 1968, they were all 7 digit serial #'s with an 8 in the third position.

paint code 6806-B is indeed Irish Green, and the B refers to a black interior (A=red, B=black,C=brown)

Alex,

Make a board (2x4) the same length as the width of the seat back middle screw.
Take the seat back off the recliner mechanism.
Do not let the recliners move.
Use wood screws to attach the recliners to the board (this will let you easily reinstall the back).
Take the cover off the seat back.
Post some images of what you see.
Reassemble so nothing gets lost.

I can’t see in your image, there should be three screws holding the back to the recliner.



I just noticed this image:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1297115490.jpg



Are there numbers written here (green circle)?
They should be large German script in crayon.


The 911T still has lots of pieces that need to be removed prior to stripping the paint.
Be sure and document everything.


Best,
Grady

What is MSO?

Found another number zooming a picture:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1297123074.jpg


118 2 0298 - I think it's eight...

That number on the lower dash frame should be the same as your VIN: 11820296
Beginning in 1969 that number changed to a body production number.
If you had a Karmann produced body, then there are other numbers to be found.

Alex,

MSO = Manufacturers Statement of Origin.
This is the document from Porsche saying they built the car.
This is what you use to get a title or other ownership documents.

The MSO for your 911T may still be on file in the Lisbon DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles)


Here is the original MSO for 904-055 when Porsche sold it new to Ben Pon, Porsche importer in Holland.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1120186969.jpg

There are three assignments on the reverse.
I was the 5th owner.

Best,
Grady

Thanks!

Although there isn't too much to say about this project, except that I am trying very hard to get some founds (sales at eBay are going great!) to send it to the body shop, so I could have the base of everything already done, I've been trying to get some acknowledgement about parts, processes and all other important details to this kind of project.

Observing my part's stock today, (I bought this car completely disassembled), I noticed that one of the wheels that came with the car had a different color than others.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303854650.jpg

Apparently, it looked like the previous owner has been testing a very strong sand blasting machine...!!! I just thought that this one is lost...

It was really damaged:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303854779.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303854814.jpg


As it was already damaged, I decided to try and see how far could I recover it or bring it some shine...

Started to sand it with 240 paper and it only did some scratches... tried harder but that is really a hell of a job!
Then I decided to add some WD-40 and sanded a bit more. Off course I was doing a big mess but after a good cleaning... WOW! What a result!
It is really impressing how the WD 40 speeded up the process!
Did the same with 400 paper, then Scotch Brit, always with the help of WD-40 (not based in any scientific theory!), and... Here is a small detail of what can be done on a 10 minute job:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303855525.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303855555.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1303855585.jpg

I know that is not a big task or achievement but I only wanted to share this experience with those, like me, with lack of knowledge and resources, are always in search of small processes to speed up things and keep up motivation, seeing some work done!

Those wheels are definitely worth saving.

Alex,

If that is a 4½x15, it is worth a lot – even ‘as is’.
Sell it without any more refinishing.
A buyer will prefer to refinish it themselves.

Best,
Grady

Nop! They are all 15 x 6 ...
Don't beleve they came with the car... Any idea of the original ones?

Btw, did you geet my e-mails?

That was the only one damaged. The other 3 are painted in gold! :(

Regarding this project, I would like to ask another details to those who know this cars better: which king of instrument gauges did it originally had?
The green number ones? Or the next model?

If anyone has some pictures, please post.
Thank you

Wow, nice project!

They switched gauges in -68 so your car should have green (old) ones!

Best regards

A 1968 911T should have the black/white with orange pointers and black bezel with glass face.
These use the screw-clamp and barrel nuts on the back (until ’70 model).

A ‘68T would come standard with ‘non-S’ instruments.
These would have a fuel level gauge and low fuel warning light (no oil level) for the left instrument.
The ‘combination instrument’ would have only a temperature gauge, brake warning light (no oil pressure gauge) but a low oil pressure warning light.
The tach is standard but with 911T redline.
The speedometer and clock are standard.

The 911S instruments with oil level and pressure were optional.
With ‘S’ instruments, the oil pressure warning light was deleted.

Best,
Grady

Wow Grady... what a moment! :D

This place is amazing! Thanks to the man with the idea!

While waiting for some parts for the other project, been doing some work on this car.

The bonnet is fiberglass but an "heavy-weight" version because it seemed heavier that a steel one...

Took off the front wings (what a job!), because they are the impact bumper style and will not be used on the car.
Regarding this parts, I would like to have your opinion: Is there any possibility of this wings being the original ones with the light boxes cut?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1304117428.jpg

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After being search for any damage on the body, been cleaning some areas.

Looking good, I think...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1304118238.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1304118270.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1304118307.jpg

... and a new interpretation of the front panel:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1304118436.jpg