New Member - 911E not run in 10 years

[clarkd]

I just purchased a 1973 911E Targa that has not been cranked in 10 or driven in 12 years. It was garaged during this time. The previous owner told me he parked the car because enough fluid leaked past the transmission input shaft seal to contaminate the pressure plate.

The batteries were pulled, but gas was left in the tank and carbs. It has Webers not the original fuel injection.

The previous owner believed the engine would be locked up after sitting for so many years, and advised me to pull the engine/transmission and address this along with the transmission seal replacement.

I'm inclined to try and run the engine before pulling it because, after removing all the spark plugs, I was able to freely rotate the engine with a wrench on the fan nut.

Is it a bad idea to try and get the engine running to determine what kind of shape it is in before removing it? To me, it makes since to troubleshoot any existing electrical, cranking and ignition problems as well prior to removing the engine.

I have no previous 911 or Porsche experience and would appreciate any recommendations, given my general description, on necessary/important items to check or task to perform prior to attempting to start an engine that has not run in 10 years.

Thanks in advance.

[Eddyvdw]

I just fired up my 72 91E after sitting for 17 years. First replace oil, petrol and the filters and give it a go. Expect lots of smoke (I mean warn the neighbors). It will clear after driving for a while.
I quickly figured out the issues and started to wok on ignition, plugs, rusted fuel tank etc etc. Good luck and send us a picture of the smoke!

Ed

[pete3799]

I would first drain the gas tank, remove the line in the bottom, and clean the screen. Replace fuel filter.
Your carbs are going to need a good cleaning as well.
Before putting the plugs back in i would put some Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders and rotate
by hand some more.
Put your location in your post. There maybe someone local to you to lend a hand.

[Zeke]

Please search for "start up" using the search function. There are many, many good threads on how to properly do this.

[HarryD]

+1 with Milt. There is a post here by Grady Clay that discusses this topic in depth. Since rebuilding one of these engines vastly exceeds the cost of a chevy motor, I would use all possible care to avoid collateral damage.

When do your searches (try terms like engine storage, starting), be sure you read posts #20 and 21 of this thread:

Winter storage checklist?

[Winter]

and post pics! everyone here loves 'em.

[clarkd]

Here are a few pictures taken the day I first saw the car.

[Evans, Marv]

Since you know you're going to have to pull the engine & tranny to fix clutch issues, why try to start the engine before you do that ????? +1 on the Marvel oil. +1 on researching the start up on search. Buy Wayne's books & a manual if you can get one & read them. Use that time to try to find a trustworthy Porsche wrench. I certainly would pull everything you need to for fixing what needed to be done before starting it. Besides getting to things without the engine & tranny in the car will be lots easier to do. Don't be over anxious.

[Evans, Marv]

And hey welcome. There is a lot of info, insight, and help available here from a bunch of great guys.

[HarryD]

Nice color. I really like the Wheel Well molding. Factory Air too!

[BIGW]

Welcome, you have scored a fine car!

[911TES]

Beautiful car. +1 on the color and wheel well trim.

I was in a similar position. My '69T that sat for longer, but better set-up (fuel drained) I did just what you are thinking about. I eventually got the car (barely) running.

What I wished I did was:

1) Pull the engine
2) Rebuild the carbs.
3) Adjust the valves.
4) Do a static ignition timing.
5) Replace key gaskets to minimize/eliminate leaks.

The other things were:

1) Rebuild brake calipers, new master cylinder, of course, all new fluid.
2) Clean fuel tank, lines and filters.

That's a beautiful car, give it its due.

Bill

[real550A]

I had a similar situation with my barn find '72 E. Follow the experienced, good advice
you're getting here, you won't be sorry. Don't be in a hurry to fire up the engine.
You will save much time and $$ by taking a reasoned approach. Definitely, clean and
"boil" out that fuel tank before running the fuel pump!
Nothing on these classics is cheap, why damage good parts by being in a hurry?

[clarkd]

As an update, I have been slowly poking around in various places in the car. Primarily resulting from the fact that I've been spending too much of my available free time working on a small storage building for the items the 911 displaced in the garage. This job is ongoing and true to my past projects, I'm off by a factor of 4 on how long I believe a job will take versus reality.

Mice with sharp teeth were living in this car. Thankfully, so far, their preferred nesting materials appear to have been a trench coat left in the trunk by the PO and pink fiberglass insulation. They chewed through the fuel supply line and wires in the engine compartment. Gnawing off lengths of insulation from wires was another popular rodent pastime!

I added marvel mystery oil to all the cylinders using a turkey baster and flexible straw from the dollar store. I borrowed a friend's Milwaukee brand fiber optic viewer to use during this process. The viewer was probably overkill for the job, but I was impressed with the image quality, magnification and light levels on this particular tool.

The car was originally parked years ago due to an oil soaked clutch disk caused by a leaking transmission input shaft seal. I checked the number on the installed transmission, and based on what I have read in this forum, it suffers from the "autopsy required" seal replacement design flaw. I also have what the PO believed to be the original 915 transmission from the car that was swapped out for shifting issues. I don't know how to tell if it is original to the car, but the number stamped on it is in the same range as the 915 in the car. I've seen two vendors that advertise TO bearing guide tube mods to address this seal problem so at some point down the road I'll ask for recommendations.

I must admit that I have to check out this forum almost daily!

[Neil '67 911S]

Because outboard motors sit for long periods of time, evidently their piston rings frequently freeze up. Yamaha sells a fuel additive called 'Ring Free" which is designed to help wake up a sleepy engine. There is a "shock treatment" of some 2 oz/gallon that works great.

The Rust Bucket's ('67 911S) engine had been sitting for at least 10 years when I bought it. I woke it up with the stuff, running the engine on a test stand for some 20 gallons worth of fuel at varying RPM. The stuff really worked. Subsequent compression and leak-down (plus oil pressure) tests indicated that despite the long hibernation, the engine was/is a winner.

[cbush]

The mice in my stored 911 made a nice little nest under the engine shroud on top of the oil cooler. If I had tried to run the car, it would have overheated rather quickly.
Based on that and other experiences, I am with the "pull the engine and service it before you start it" crowd. You have to pull it anyway, so why risk damaging it.

Beautiful car- good luck!

[RSTarga]

Nice Nardi Steering wheel.

[Grady Clay]

clarkd,
Congratulations and welcome to Pelican
You will find a lot of help here.
That looks like a VERY nice find.


Transmission 7324945 is a 1972 type 915/02 while transmission 7330972 is a 1973 type 915/02.
Both of these transmissions have the “"autopsy required" seal replacement design flaw.“ Best description yet.
The ‘slightly improved version’ didn’t begin until type 915/02 number 7337375, much later in 1973.

The nice thing about having the spare transmission is you can take your time going through it while still driving.



Be sure to check in the heat exchangers, on top of the engine (under the shroud) and behind the cardboard panel in the trunk (behind the instruments) for more mouse.
Don’t install new batteries until you have looked everywhere.


Did you get service records with the car?
I am always concerned about cam timing chain ramps (and tensioners).
The OE hard rubber ramps got harder and broke off. Bad things happen.
If it has the later, plastic ramps – great.
Might be worth looking.

It seems you have the engine and fuel system program in hand.

You might set the engine to TDC compression on #1 and take the distributor out.
Take it to an old-time auto-electric shop with a Sun Electric distributor machine.
You can install new points, lube it and run it in so you know it works on start-up.
I would summarily replace the high voltage parts (cap, plug wires and plug connectors).
Carefully inspect the rotor.

Does it still have the MFI fuel filter system and circulation back to the tank?

Do not wash the engine with water until it is running.
You don’t want water to sit somewhere.
Solvent and compressed air will work.


More pictures please.

This looks very worthy of the effort to put it back original.
A longer term project than getting it running is to gather together all the pieces to do this.
What happened to the MFI parts? Steering wheel and horn butterfly? Other?

Congratulations and welcome again.

Best,
Grady

PS: Now you need to build a neighbor for your storage building.
How about a 4-bay, 2500 sf Porsche hobby shop?
G.

[Grady Clay]

More.

How old are the tires?
If old, you might want to replace them before you get it running.

The brakes are probably going to be another safety issue.
It is very common for the master cylinder to fail soon after being put back in service.
The usual set of things to do are the master cylinder, four flex hoses, cycle the pistons in the calipers, replace the pads (save the old ones) and thoroughly bleed the brakes.


Is this original paint?
Any prior crash damage?
There will be rust hiding in places.
One of your ‘missions’ is to (at least) retard the progression.
There are some important places to clean and inspect.
There are some places where flawed good intent has material that actually seems to absorb moisture from the air.
Critical is keeping it dry and stored in a low humidity environment.
Don’t be afraid to drive in the rain. When it gets wet, dry it out.



On to my soapbox.

You are the current caretaker of a very special car.
Please take good care of it.
I’ll encourage you to do anything you want to enjoy it.
It is fun to change the steering wheel, engines, tires, wheels, suspension, gears and more.
Critical is maintaining all the parts and information to retain the ability to restore the car to original configuration and condition.
It is very worthwhile (for the pocketbook) and satisfying (for the soul).
You and your grandchildren will appreciate the effort.

2¢

Best,
Grady

[clarkd]

Below is how the car was described in an email from the PO.

It's a 2.4 L 911E with weber carbs
The engine was rebuilt about 5000 miles ago, with improved mechanical chain tensioners.
It has been garaged since I bought it, and I believe that it always was.
The last time it ran was about 12 years ago. It was running when I put it into storage.
I removed the 2 batteries at that time, but there was some gas in the tank & carbs.
The reason I stored it was that it was leaking transmission fluid- when I put an additive into the transmission (slick manual trans fluid) the leak got worse, and the fluid got onto the clutch plate, which effectively always had the clutch engaged. I have pulled the motor/trans about three times for various reasons- It takes about one day.
Of the things that I know don't work, they are only the oily clutch & the defrost motor. I replaced the headlights, turn & taillight lenses, and upgraded the front breaks.

The only body damage I know of is when the hand brake slipped and it rolled into the corner of a garage. At that time I straightened the hood, replaced the bumper with a fiberglass RSR front, and repainted it all to a metallic blue

The motor was last turned over about 10 years ago.
As far as I know the tires are sound (Michelin)
It has an air conditioner, which leaks down.

I replaced the carpets & reupholstered the Recarro seats. The Targa top cover is new. The previous owner replaced the gaskets around the doors, etc.


Below are some of the things I’ve noticed since bringing the car home.

The car has a 1994 vehicle inspection sticker on the windshield, so it may have been sitting for longer than the PO remembers.
I have found rust on the car, but so far no gasping at what I’ve seen. Someone I had not previously met from the neighborhood stopped after seeing the car. He is the PO of a 1970 and 1972 911. After a nice conversation, he offered to come by and check the “typical” areas for rust when the car is more accessible. He also volunteered to loan 911 specific tools!
I don’t believe any of the original MFI or other stock parts removed from the car were saved. I believe the car still has a Bosch fuel pump with supply and return lines coming through the tunnel. I attached an ugly picture.
The ignition module is a Perma-Tune.
The original paint code is Gemini Blue Metallic.
I can’t take any decent pictures of the car with it currently jammed in the garage. It still has a thick dusty film coating on the outside; however the interior is airing out nicely. No cracks in the dash.
More pictures from different angles from the first day I saw the car. Please no grief about the seat color/material.