87 Carrera.....max wheels & tire sizes?

[Hodgey]

Hello all....
I have just completed my first ever DE, had an absolute blast and am hooked for life!!!
My little girl got me round the track safe and sound, so much so that I want to buy a set of track wheels for her.......while looking, what is the maximum size I can put on without spacers?

I currently have 6 and 7 x 16's....

Thanks in advance.


Neil

[poc533]

I've got 8x17's up front with w 240 40's and 9x17s in th rear w 275 40's im using no spacers up front and 6mm spacers in the rear.

[Flat6pac]

Put your front tires on your back wheels
buy a set of 9x16 Fuchs and 245 45 16 tires and bolts right on. On a hard bounce the front left fender might touch the tire so you need to roll the lip an inch or two.
Bruce

[aston@ultrasw.c]

move the 7s to the front and send the 6s to Trudesignwheel.com and have them converted to 9.5 yeaaah

suprisingly economical and plenty strong enough for the track

btw there's nothing wrong with (quality) spacers to fine tune offset

[Wil Ferch]

Could also go after more grip by changing *compound* vs changing *size*.

What about street/racing, low wear rating rubber tires.... in the stock sizes ??

[wildcat077]

Get some 17 inch "track" wheels as the tire choice is more abundant ...
I upgraded to some 17 inch Fikses and will be playing "DE" as well this Summer !

Pretty scary cause i know i'm going to get hooked as well .
My son is freaking out because he says i'm going to sell the ATV's and the snowmobiles to put more money in my car ... lol

Cheers !
Phil

[Hodgey]

Originally Posted by wildcat077

Get some 17 inch "track" wheels as the tire choice is more abundant ...
I upgraded to some 17 inch Fikses and will be playing "DE" as well this Summer !

Pretty scary cause i know i'm going to get hooked as well .
My son is freaking out because he says i'm going to sell the ATV's and the snowmobiles to put more money in my car ... lol

Cheers !
Phil

....so what is his point???.....lol

Do I take it 17's will fit without issues on my stock 87 then????
That sounds like a good way to go..

[Hodgey]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

Could also go after more grip by changing *compound* vs changing *size*.

What about street/racing, low wear rating rubber tires.... in the stock sizes ??

Will....I just want to not wreck my street tyres when I go to a DE event......I would rather have a set of wheels and tyres that I change out the night before DE.
But it is an option to get a set of spare wheels the same size and then change the compounds...

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Hodgey

Do I take it 17's will fit without issues on my stock 87 then????
That sounds like a good way to go..

"Without issues" is the operative phrase here. The answer to your question of "what is the max size" might be completely different than what will fit without issues. Higher spring rates, modified alignment settings (especially camber) and rolled fenders might be required to fit the max sizes and even then you might have issues.

7 and 9x16s with 225s/245s is a nice, pretty safe bet, but be aware that tire availability in the 245/45-16 size is minimal.

[wildcat077]

Neil,

My 89 is a regular narrow bodied Coupe and i'm running 17 inch,7.5 and 9 inch Fikses with 225/45/17 and 255/40/17 Dunlpos with no issues whatsoever !
Had i known i would have went with 235/45/17 and 265/40/17 ...

We tried my wheels on a friend's 88 NB Carrera two weeks ago and they fit just fine.Big mistake on his part because he just coughed up $3500.00 dollars to Zuffenhaus for a set of 17 inch Fuchs .Hope he has enough money left to buy tires

Cheers !
Phil

[JeremyD]

17" wheels will fit fine as long as they have the correct offset. 18's will fit too - but not recommended.

7's and 9's seem to be a popular size in either 16's or 17's

I had zuffenhaus 17 x 8's and 17 x 9's on my old 1987 carrera. I used either a set of 225/255's or a set of Toyo ra1's that were 235 and 275's. They required a little more work to fit.

The most important thing is getting them close to the ideal offsets for a SC/Carrera - which is around 28-30 ET in the front and 11-16 ET in the rear.

For track wheels - I can not stress enough for you to get wheels that are strong. Once you move up in sizes - and switch to bigger TB and stickier rubber the forces you exert on the wheels expand exponentially. having a wheel fail at the track can ruin your whole day.

BBS makes great wheels - Zuffenhaus - Fikse - CCW - Kodiak - Have fun

(BTW - there use to be race rubber and street rubber - the two were mutually exclusive. These days there are R compound tires that you can do both with - limit on the street driving - The Toyo RA1's - Nitto NT01's and Michelin Pilot are all around ~ 100 tread wear that you can drive back and forward on. The Bridgestone RE-11's - Kuhmo XS and Dunlop Dizarra star and Nitto NT05 are just a little more street that still perform at the track. )

[michael lang]

Hodgey, this is probably not what you're going to want to hear but save your money on the wheels right now and just learn your car on track doing DE this year with your stock stuff. If you insist, the ski is the limit as far as what you want. I have seen a couple of Carerras at Summit Point on 8 & 9x 18 CCW wheels without spacers. Those were very nice. I just got a set of wheels this winter for track that are 8 & 9 x 16. I thought hard about 17s but decided based on the wheels I would be better off with this set of 16s if I had to get rid of them fast.

[KTL]

I agree nothing wrong with the stock 16x6 and 16x7 for now. But also nothing wrong with another set to save your nice stuff for the street. Problem is, if you get hooked? Then you're going to want to take it up a notch and buy the optimum setup. So there's nothing wrong with buying optimum first since it potentially saves you from buying twice.

Just make sure you've got a decent set of tires and fresh brakes and you're good to go. Have fun, because that's what it's all about. The speed will come with more seat time. So don't go blowing gobs of money on "upgrades." You'll find there's some folks who are plenty fast on stock suspension, stock brakes and street tires. Until you start chasing them down, you need more seat time!

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Hodgey

Hello all....
I have just completed my first ever DE, had an absolute blast and am hooked for life!!!
My little girl got me round the track safe and sound, so much so that I want to buy a set of track wheels for her.......while looking, what is the maximum size I can put on without spacers?

I currently have 6 and 7 x 16's....

Thanks in advance.


Neil

6 & 7 x16 205/55 & 225/50 tires are bean counters fitments, they are not performance oriented except in the most casual way.

If you are truely going to pursue de w/ that car and want to do a dual use you will need a better wheel/tire setup(it is one of the best things you can do besides seat time and weight loss) and need to make some hard choices wrt the bias compromises that will need to be made both is wheel/tire choice and alignment
the range of compounds goes from very track biased tires to very good street performance tires, not all lines are available in 911 sizes
16" I'd want 7 & 8 minimum, 8 & 9 is better but the choices of 16" r tires is pretty limited, Toyo RA1 in 205/55, 225/50 & 245/45, you'd want street radials in those sizes too but none of the lines I'd choose are available in those sizes

If you go to 17 and 18 there are lots more choices one performance street fitment that I find extremely attractive right now is Michelin SS 225/40 & 255/35 x18 you'd want 8 ET25-31 & 9-9.5 ET12-19 wheels for these.

The state of the art in tires is in a major flux at this point w/ new lines cropping up regularly, last years winner can easily be this years also ran

[Hodgey]

Originally Posted by KTL

I agree nothing wrong with the stock 16x6 and 16x7 for now. But also nothing wrong with another set to save your nice stuff for the street. Problem is, if you get hooked? Then you're going to want to take it up a notch and buy the optimum setup. So there's nothing wrong with buying optimum first since it potentially saves you from buying twice.

Just make sure you've got a decent set of tires and fresh brakes and you're good to go. Have fun, because that's what it's all about. The speed will come with more seat time. So don't go blowing gobs of money on "upgrades." You'll find there's some folks who are plenty fast on stock suspension, stock brakes and street tires. Until you start chasing them down, you need more seat time!

Guys.....this forum does it for me.

I completely agree that I need seat time.....and that is my mission but you know how it is.....money in pocket.....must spend!!!!

IF I come across the right deal, then I will go ahead and probably buy 17" wheels. But I really appreciate the feedback and comments from all of you.

Thanks to all of you.....I really am hooked and amazed at what my little girl let me do to her over the weekend......she spun me round once too to remind me who was boss....but I would not change her for a gold pig.......

Neil

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Hodgey

Guys.....this forum does it for me.

I completely agree that I need seat time.....and that is my mission but you know how it is.....money in pocket.....must spend!!!!

IF I come across the right deal, then I will go ahead and probably buy 17" wheels. But I really appreciate the feedback and comments from all of you.

Thanks to all of you.....I really am hooked and amazed at what my little girl let me do to her over the weekend......she spun me round once too to remind me who was boss....but I would not change her for a gold pig.......

Neil

think hard about 15, 16, 17 or 18
the current rage among SC/Carrera racers is 15, 8 & 9 because Hoosier has a 275/35 x15 rear tire that is very attractive, It'll be interesting to see what shows up in front because the choices(225/45 x15) entail some compromises there isn't a 235 or 245 which most would want to match the 275

in 16 225/45 & 245/45 is similarly unavailable anywhere(to my knowledge)

in 17 225/45 & 255/40 is widely available but to go wider the compromise of increased rolling radius must be acceptable

in 18 the 235/40 & 255/35 is a very attractive setup available from Dunlop * Spec, BS RE11, Hankook RS 3, Yoko 08, Conti EC/DW, Michelin SS all very good performance street tires

[Wil Ferch]

Hodgey:
To your counter-point.....whether you choose to have a second set "just for track".....or use what you drive on the street, also on the track..... is an independent decision whether or not go "max size" or "same size but max grip compound".

Besides.....DE is suposedly "race-fast" in terms of developing skill and tempo..... but not "race" ( timed).....so I don't really get the point about max tires anyway.

[Hodgey]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

Hodgey:
To your counter-point.....whether you choose to have a second set "just for track".....or use what you drive on the street, also on the track..... is an independent decision whether or not go "max size" or "max grip compound".

Besides.....DE is suposedly "race-fast" in terms of developing skill and tempo..... but not "race" ( timed).....so I don't really get the point about max tires anyway.

Will, I am just excited to have got my first DE under my belt and I have my head in the clouds regarding what I want to do with my car next......

A spare set of rims and tyres just for DE almost makes sense to me to not wreck my street wear, but I just thought that if I was going to buy another set, what would I be able to go up to in terms of sizing without major modifications of fenders / hubs with spacers etc....that's all......

As always, great discussion and food for thought for me from this group of people.
Thanks for your input Will

Neil

[Tim L]

If you think your in this for the long term I would get a good set of rims, no cast junk' and go to 17" 8's and 9's. the max size for the tires will be 245 40 and 275 40 these will fit on the rims and car with some work.
There is no need to go this big with the tires until you start racing, just go to 225 and 255 these should fit with just fender rolling. also 9.5" will bump you a class if you do get to racing.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Tim L

If you think your in this for the long term I would get a good set of rims, no cast junk' and go to 17" 8's and 9's. the max size for the tires will be 245 40 and 275 40 these will fit on the rims and car with some work.
There is no need to go this big with the tires until you start racing, just go to 225 and 255 these should fit with just fender rolling. also 9.5" will bump you a class if you do get to racing.

the problem w/ 245/275 x17 is the tall rolling radius, this is why the raacers are going to 275/35 x15

a 275/35 X16 has a dynamic loaded radius of ~11.5"
a 275/40 x17 has a dynamic loaded radius of ~12.4"

that extra .9" of radius is a killer as far as acceleration goes

one reason I like the newer 18s is the available width/section/height compromises that are available now, but haven't been in the past

I agree that for most casual users 225/255 or 235/255 in 17 or 18 is an excellent selection, I have 225/45 & 255/40 x17 Dunlop * Specs on my '76 C3 and love them compared to the 235/45 & 275/40 Dunlop SP9000 I used to use mostly because newer tires are always softer and grippier but also because of the better gearing

but 18s aren't that much more expensive and the 225/40 & 255/35 x18 @ ~12.1" has about the same radius as a 255/40 x17 but also has a lower section profile that is advantageous for performance