Anyone ever have problems with Welded-up Fuchs?

[oh snap]

When I got my car, the previous owner gave me the choice of welded up 16x7&9 fuchs or the original chrome fuchs that came on the car. I chose the welded wheels and he had the tires changed over. After, he told me when they changed the tires over they removed the silicone bead that covered the weld and that they may leak air, which they did.

When I took my new tires to get mounted I asked that they run a bead of silicone along the weld. Rewelded wheels are seemingly so common on this site that I didnt think much of it. The tire installer thought this was crazy. He said that the welds were so sloppy he shouldnt even mount the tires as the entire wheel might blow up in his face when he puts air in it. I told him I understand safety comes first but that the wheels had held up to pressure fine with the old tires and they if they were going to fail they probably would have done it at some time during the 10 or 20 thousand miles the previous owner had put on them. He went back and forth to the supervisor and eventually siliconed and mounted the wheels. When I got my paperwork it noted "no warranty on rears, very sloppy welds possibly unsafe"

I am not too worried about it. I believe the wheels were done by Al Reed who has an excellent reputation for his work. The welds didnt look sloppy to me, they just looked like welds. Anything to worry about here? Anyone get similar resistance from a tire shop before?

[Geronimo '74]

Why were they welded up?
Were they widened?

(I'm not a welder but why wouldn't welded wheels be airtight??)



(Porsche never had chromed Fuchs)

[oh snap]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

Why were they welded up?
Were they widened?

(I'm not a welder but why wouldn't welded wheels be airtight??)



(Porsche never had chromed Fuchs)

Sorry, the rears were widened to 9 inches from something smaller, so there is a seam around them. I'm not a welder either so Im not sure about the air tight issue. I imagine there are ways for air to get through sometimes

The chromed wheels were a dealer option, or done by the original owner. I dont mind polished wheels but chromed is definitely a no go

[Geronimo '74]

If the wheels were done by Al Reed then I guess they were done right, but are you sure he welded them??

I don't know if I would take the risk at 100 mph. I would sell them and go for non welded ones (8 or even 9 inch wide), but that's just me.
I would not autocross them.

I wonder what would be the "safest" wheel, the non chromed but welded ones or the chromed ones with the chrome removed and re-anodized??

Others, smarter than me, will chime in.

[oh snap]

Honestly I cant be sure if they were done by Reed. If my memory serves me that is what the previous owner said. I dont actually know if the previous owner had them done himself or bought them from someone who had them widened, but in my dealing with him he was straight forward about the car.

Would it really be any different than something like the Lindsey racing wheels? Welded Fuchs seems too common to be unsafe...

[oh snap]

Eventually Id like to upgrade to 17 inch Zuffenhaus wheels or similar, but at least for the next set of tires Ill stick to these

[Geronimo '74]

I'm not saying it's an accident waiting to happen, don't get me wrong.

But like you said, you're not 100% sure who made them. If you buy Lindsey's, you can be sure.
Zuffenhaus? better order in time, last I heard, there is a long waiting list....

[Cairo94507]

I would send the widened wheels to either Reed or Weidman to be inspected to make sure they are safe. If they approve of the work done, drive 'em. If not, fix 'em. I would not be comfortable driving them otherwise. My deep sixes, five of them, are headed to Weidman very soon for restoration.

[nesslar]

I don't want to throw names out there, but not long ago, on the track, a poster here had a wheel start to break up. Popular, knowledgeable guy for sure. Fortunately everything worked out, no harm to the driver at least. But he proved they can break; I'm quite sure his were "made into" wider versions.
I also read of 6" wheels being sacrificed to make wider ones, and the comment/opinion offered was something along the lines of, "...could be dangerous using a wheel that was designed to be 6", not 9 or 11, so the body/core of the wheel might not be up to increased/unintended stresses..."....such as making them into 11s and then putting them on the rear of a race car.

[lindy 911]

Modern wheels modified from 6" Fuchs use only the pedals and hub of the original wheel. The entire rim is cut off and a new BBS rim is fitted with some interference and then welded and reinforced.

Some older modifications use the 6" wheel, cut the outer rim off, installed a ring and then re-installed the outer rim. I think this is the type you have. The welds should hold air pressure, if they don't they're crap. Pressure vessels are welded and they hold thousands of pounds of pressure. Your welded rims should hold 30 psi no problem.

Lindy
This is a 6" Fuchs with the entire rim replaced with a BBS 17 x 9. These are polished, not chrome.

[turn6]

Demetri,
Those wheels were not built by Al Reed. His shop mounted & balanced the new tires. I bought the wheels & tires from a shop in Pasadena in 7/06. My recollection is that the seller knew the builder.
MKoury

[Brad394]

deleted post ... read the entire thing - answered my questions. sloppy welds = replace

[oh snap]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I'll slide replacement wheels up on the list.


Thanks for clarifying Mike. Hope your getting by alright with just the cabriolet. Yoko and I love the coupe

[Reaper930]

Welded wheels are safe, Harvey Weidman reworked my 935 rears and narrowed them by 1". If you like the wheels its worth sending them to Harvey Weidman of Weidman's Wheels and having him go over them to ensure all is in order. Saves you having to buy new wheels and his prices are VERY fair and reasonable.

His work is flawless.

[Green 912]

Originally Posted by Reaper930

Welded wheels are safe, Harvey Weidman reworked my 935 rears and narrowed them by 1". If you like the wheels its worth sending them to Harvey Weidman of Weidman's Wheels and having him go over them to ensure all is in order. Saves you having to buy new wheels and his prices are VERY fair and reasonable.

His work is flawless.

Yes welded wheels can be quite safe. Poorly welded wheels are a crap shoot at best. For me leaks in a rim weld are a good indicator of something wrong with the weld work. Gaps, weld bead porosity, cracks or other stress risers. I would have the wheels inspected and repaired by a known wheel man or at least a good welder that has certs in this area of welding.

[rpmgroup]

welded wheels that hold air and are true should be safe to use, wheels that have been welded and leak air. Well' Those small holes are a weak point in the wheel's welds. I would remove the silicone and dye check the welds. I have welded up steelies before without any air leaks.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by rpmgroup

welded wheels that hold air and are true should be safe to use, wheels that have been welded and leak air. Well' Those small holes are a weak point in the wheel's welds. I would remove the silicone and dye check the welds. I have welded up steelies before without any air leaks.

Were it not for air leakage issues, I wouldn't necessarily assume a welded joint is inherently weak because it passes air (that doesn't sound polite, does it?). I'd solicit a ME for a professional opinion in this application. There are plenty of welded structures in this world that aren't water tight that are presumed safe.

Anyone fit that criteria have an opinion?

Sherwood

[rpmgroup]

The questions are; "Anything to worry about here? Anyone get similar resistance from a tire shop before?" porosity is the small holes you get welding. they come from many things when Tig welding. contaminated material, old filler rod, low gas settings, bad tungsten, etc. too many pores and the weld is weaker across the pores than area without the small holes. Air is leaking from the welds and if they were my wheels like I said "I would remove the silicone and dye check the welds". I have welded up many chevy ralleys, some to 15 inches wide and most of the time the tire guys, want to know where to get them. So, no problem getting them mounted.

[lindy 911]

I respectfully disagree with what you said Sherwood, a weld that leaks air is a crappy weld. Air holes in a weld of any kind are a bad thing. A weld with pin holes and perforations would not pass inspection no matter what the intended use.

[gsjohnson]

Originally Posted by lindy 911

I respectfully disagree with what you said Sherwood, a weld that leaks air is a crappy weld. Air holes in a weld of any kind are a bad thing. A weld with pin holes and perforations would not pass inspection no matter what the intended use.

That is not necessarily accurate. I have seen pin holes in welds for years where the weld has not been compromised. Look at the chassis welds of the older race cars and production unibodys. A very common appearance. I have a production aluminum oil tank that has a couple of pin holes in the bracket by a well known company.

I agree that ideally you would not want an excessive amount of pin holes in any weld, but to say that the weld is a crappy weld is not accurate. This pin hole appearance is usually caused by the mix of the metals not being identical during the welding process.

Welding metals have come a long way in the last 10 years to where welds almost appear to be automated in appearance...a perfect seam.