Most Underappreciated 911 (Or Derivative)

[jluetjen]

Just an informal survey. What do people feel is the most underappreciated 911 (or derivative so race cars count)? By underappreciated I mean that the car is less popular then it really should be. You could say that these cars constitute the "best buys" in the 911 world.

For starters, I'll argue that 911E's fall into this category. They have significantly more peformance then T's but they hardly cost much more. In fact, very often their equipment (except for the Boge Struts!) and performance (say 0-60, 0-100) is closer to an S's level. There really weren't that many more E's built then S's. I'd say that they are "underappreciated"

What's your pick?

[Planter91C2]

i think most would agree the 964 falls into this category

[Pillow]

Any of the 912s.

Granted some are overpriced considering it is not a 911 at heart. But some are a deal.

Also the 911S 75-77 gets a bad rap.

[Clark Griswald]

Amoung porsche fans, it's the 2.7 cars. What's a few pulled head studs between friends? By now most all these cars have been rebuilt with appropriate updates so the reputation is obsolete.

Amoung the general population, it's the early cars. Because they think porsche is a status car and the oldest therefor has the least status. Poor, misguided souls.

[david c.]

The responses to these types of threads always seem to gravitate towards the "my car is the best" type of comments. But, that said, I have owned a handful of distinct Porsche models, and I've gotta say that the silly little 912E is an underappreciated model. I've driven a 356, late and early 911s (never an "S", however), and having owned a 3.2 Carrera and 928S since buying the 912E (and subsequently selling both), I can honestly, and more importantly-objectively, say that little underpowered rat is more fun per twisty road mile than any other car I've owned or driven.

At 25 years old, that list includes my current other ride-a 1964 Volvo P1800S as well as a Miata, an Eclipse, a DOHC 160hp del Sol, the aforementioned Porsches, our family's old 914, a Supra and a Jeep Grand Wagoneer (don't ask). There's also a 944 in the driveway that I've never driven which I'm taking apart. I just bought a 73 911T rust bucket for kicks, but I haven't driven it.

I know you all will laugh at me, but the 912E is light, it is more difficult to get loose than any 911, it doesn't have the weight bias of a 911 (especially like my old Carrera), etc. I guess I feel more confident that when really hammering it, nothing untoward will happen. And that little flat four actually has some torque.

For those of you who have never driven a 912E, if you get a chance I would say do so. Don't drive it as if it's a lesser 911. Consider it as a different car unto itself. Only then will it's virtues appear.

Let the laugher commence.

[widebody911]

I'd say the SWB and 74-77 911s

[roGERK]

A real bargin (at least here in Europe) is the 1974 911 Carrera.

It is slightly heavier than the "legendary" 1973 model, but shares essentially the same engine (still with MFI) and suspension, its just it has the 1974 style bodywork and a few other trivial differences.

The differences don't really seem to justify these cars being sometimes half as cheap as the '73, often cited as the best 911 ever.

- roGER

[Jim T]

Not many 911s are underappreciated, I think.

Certainly not the 75-77 models. People buy and sell them all the time at prices that are pretty high, relative to other models, and to the "issues" with those cars, which are legit issues. Mechanically those engines do have more problems than other years, sure, they can be built to be reliable, but most have not been. Aestetically, they are in the opinion of many the worst models, the proportions are not great with the narrow fenders and big bumpers. Lets face it, the mid 70's were simply bad years for most car makers, with the US smog and safety regs.

Yet, good condition 75-77s seem to sell for not much less than SCs. So I don't think they are "underappreciated."

I don't think the 912e is underappreciated, either. Its a big-bumpered 911 with a rattly, 90 hp VW engine. Pretty tough to overrate that. I drove many of them when I worked in a shop many years ago and found nothing impressive about them. Just my opinion. (Although I don't feel as strongly about them as Bruce Anderson does, he calls the 912E "a fraud").

I'd agree on the 911E. I've found that on the street, the E is actually more fun than the S. Less peaky. As a daily street driver, I'd rather have an E than an S, myself. Yet, for all of its goodness, it does not have anywhere the notoriety or mystique of the S. Not even close.

[david c.]

Hey Jim,

You better be careful calling that "fraud" of a 912E motor "rattly". I happen to like it, but more importantly you might have the whole 914 board irritated!

Best regards,

David

[GIBSON]

I really like the '74 911's. I drove a plain (non-s) 911 many thousands of miles with no problems. They have the simple, early exhaust, mine ran cool and never presented me with any problems. I have not owned one for years but remember that car as very reliable, great to drive and a good value. The S cars that year were nothing much more than optioned plain 911's, the Carrera was a very nice car but lacked the interesting European motor.
They seem undervalued to me at this point.

Bruce Herrmann

[Jim T]

Dave, sorry for expressing an opinion differing from others.

I'll do 15 "Kumbayas" as penance.

[david c.]

my parents always told me, "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all". With Pelican paying for the space, this BBS is a great place for parental wisdom.

[gaijinda]

I would say the early 911T. I know of at least three of them, sitting outside in foul weather. Who wants to spend all that money on a proper restoration when all you will have is an old "T"?? Not worth the money it would take to fix them up, so there they sit......All the club racers and Drivers Ed fans going strait into wider, more powerful cars, never to experience the handling of a real Porsche.... Sad.

[Jim T]

Oh, another one that I think is underappreciated is the 73.5 T, with CIS.

An unusual car that has all the good things of the early cars (small bumpers, light weight, etc.) combined with the relatively simple CIS system, good exhaust system and no smog requirements in most (all?) states. An interesting combo of old and new.

Maybe the most practical of the long-hoods as a daily driver?

And, the prices for them seem to indicate they are underappreciatd.

[Efrain68912]

The 912 and 912e.

With the soul of a 356 or a 914 2.0, we hear the "Not A Real Porsche" or the "Just a 912" stuff all the time.

Rick Becker, the 912 registry webmeister, told me that at a car show where he had the 912registry.org banner up, someone walked by and remarked "what's next, a 911T registry?"

Then ther was a certain editor at European Car, who, when asked at a 912 photo shoot if the cars would make it on the cover, said "oh yeah, that would make about 12 people excited."

But the 914 guys already know that European Car is the greatest magazine you can buy. Can't turbocharge 914s, remember?

But its okay. I've seen Joe Vampolas 912 run circles around 911S' at Pomona. It was great.

[silver912e]

I know there are a lot of people that dump on the 912E, but it does have its virtues, and there was and still is a market niche for it. It is a mild performer compared to the 911, but that "rattly" engine is fairly easy for the home hobbyist to rebuild (and a whole heck of a lot cheaper). The complete rebuild that I am doing on mine will cost under 2K, and I will have a reliable bulletproof engine for a long time if I don't make any mistakes, and care for it properly.

I'm sure there are many who wish Porsche had never made this "mistake", but those of us who have these cars are happy to own them & drive them, and appreciate the marque as much as 911 owners.

I also think that it is a car that can cause a person to graduate on to a greater addiction (911 et al) as funds permit.

OK, I'll get off the soapbox now.

Mike

[Joe911]

The must under appreciated Porsches? The two I own ..., by my wife...... she always says, "why don't you just sell those OLD cars and buy a new one!" No way!

Actually, I think that it is hard to find a 911 that is not appreciated other than possibly one in a junkyard. Read the range of responses, these cars all have SOUL and are appreciated by who ever owns and knows them. Does anyone out there in PP land noes appreciate their Porsche? Each model has a unique personality - you can't say that about just any make of automobile. I still walk out into my garage and pinch myself to make sure that I am not dreaming. However, neither does that mean that I might not cuss at it when that $$#@ nut or washer falls off my fingertip for the 12th time.

The real question is, "who are the people who don't appreciate a 911?" Fun topic though.

[Jim T]

Dave, how did you change your post above? It doesn't say "edited" but it is different than the one that I responded to.

Anyways, I don't worry about the 914 guys! Since I AM a 914 guy! I've owned several 911s over the year, including my current one, but have owned/restored even more 914s! I've had at least one 914 almost constantly since 1980.

To paraphrase an old song, "I was 914 before 914 was cool"!

Generally, I've had more fun with 914s than I have had with 911s over the past 20 years. I like 'em both, but the 914 has a lightweight simplicity that I really like. An SC is a luxury car compared to a 914.

But, the Type IV is really just a VW engine (although the 914 2.0 has heads developed by Porsche and was never used in any VW).. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But it is what it is.

Compared to a 911 6 (and actually compared to a lot of engines), the 914 engine *is* rattley. There is a lot of valve clatter and other "aircooled VW sounds" goin' on there. Maybe its a matter of expectations, but I've always thought the 914 2.0 was a good engine for the 914, but I've always found it disconcerting to start up what looks like a mid-70s 911, to hear and feel the Type IV back there.

I just think that a 911 with a Type IV engine out back isn't really an "underappreciated 911." That's all, no biggie.

[david c.]

Jim,

I deleted my response after re-reading it. I felt that even if I stated my lack of intention to be contentious, it would have been contentious nonetheless. That is not the style I try to live by, per my parental advice.

I'm glad to hear your appreciation for the "teener". Neat little cars, the 914s.

And, your opinion of the 912E has been heard-even over the rattle. haha.

David

Originally posted by Joe911
The must under appreciated Porsches? The two I own ..., by my wife...... she always says, "why don't you just sell those OLD cars and buy one new one!" No way!

What are you waiting for?!? Go out and buy a 996 GT3


I don't think it's fair to talk about underrated or overlooked 911s. That label would fit better on certain front engined Porsches. Think how good the 944Turbo and 968 are. Yet still fairly cheap and not as sought after.