The liar paradox...

[woland]

.... known to the ancients as the pseudomenon, encompasses paradoxical statements such as "This sentence is false." or "The next sentence is false. The previous sentence is true." These statements are paradoxical because there is no way to assign them a consistent classical binary truth value. If "This sentence is false" is true, then it is true and what it says is the case; but what it says is that it is false, hence it is false. On the other hand, if it is false, then what it says is not the case; thus, since it says that it is false, it must be true.





So, wich is the TRUE position for "Max defrost"?

[javadog]

The middle diagram.

JR

[woland]

The middle diagram indicates for Max defrost exactly the opposite position than the levers on the dashboard

[Todd Simpson]

Please clarify-you want to defrost? Melt ice on the windshield?

Or are you trying to de-mist-remove condensation?

[Oh Haha]

Your system may need repair, in that case.

The middle diagram is correct.

[CMDR Perry]

Woland I fully agree with you. I have never seen anything more cryptic than the heater controls on my 911. In the middle diagram the middle lever is in the wrong position or the dash labels are reversed. Also for maximum defrost I would run the fan at full speed, not 1/2 speed. I think there may be a few brilliant German engineers at Porsche that also have a twisted sense of humor. Or maybe the designers never fully tested the 911 heater controls using the diagrams as drawn?

I am sure some old graybeard Pelican can answer this Teutonic riddle.

[s_morrison57]

everytime I take the car out when I might need the defrost I have to read the manual again, last time out I had the levers in the manual's position for defrost and all it did was dry my eyes out, I'll try the reverse position next time

[VaSteve]

LOL, my SC only has one lever on the top, that's the only one I move when I need some fresh air. I don't think I've touched the other two in years.

[VaSteve]

I just looked at mine. It says "for max defrost, move the upper levers left and the bottom lever right".

Not sure how you read that while driving, but whatever.

[berettafan]

i never touch those damned things in my car. if i'm cold i pull the heater thingy by the brake lever and if i get fogged up i grab a towel. windows are almost always at least partially down.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by woland

The middle diagram indicates for Max defrost exactly the opposite position than the levers on the dashboard

I think what's confusing you (and some other posters) is that max defrost does not use the fresh air blower which is controlled by the upper levers and directed by the middle lever. If you realize that the defrost is designed to use only heated air, the dash levers make sense. The middle diagram is correct. I have an earlier system without two levers on top and no warm air booster fans, but the defrost works great with the black levers to the left and the red fully to the right, and the heat lever on the floor pulled up--as long as my rpm's push the warm air through the system.

[450knotOffice]

This might help you to figure out how that whole panel works:

A) The top row of levers -

1) The left one controls the OPENING of the fresh air vent, which allows fresh air into the cabin. Far left is closed. Far right fully open. Fresh air not in. Fresh air in.

2) The right knob controls the fan speed for fresh air. Low, medium, high.

B) The second row, with one black lever - this controls WHERE the fresh air goes. See the arrows on each side? The left one points down, the right one points up. Those arrows tell you where the fresh air is going - to the left sends air to the floor vents under the dash, and to the right sends air to the dash and defroster vents. If you slide the lever to any point between the edges, you get a mix of high and low vents - some goes to the floor and some goes to the upper vents.

C) The bottom row, with the one red lever - this works exactly the same way as the black fresh air lever above it. It simply directs the hot air to where you want it, using the same arrows the black lever uses. So, the far left position sends the hot air to the floor, and the far right position sends the hot air to the defroster vent at the windshield, as well as the two side dash vents. An intermediate position mixes where the hot air is being sent - some goes to the feet, some goes to the windshield and side vents.

[ClickClickBoom]

Guys,
You are going about this all wrong! Defrost is a relative concept, there is no absolute. I move some levers and see if it works, if not move them somewhere else, mystery continues! On another note, its kinda bittchen, 5 completely different levers to control the environmentals in a small car! The plane I fly has far fewer levers for the environmental controls and it seats a lot of people! Enjoy the mystery, if it was simple it would be a Subaru.
eric

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by javadog

The middle diagram.

JR

no, the middle lever has to go to the right to direct air to the windshield as the arrows dictate.

now if you want to use heat on the windshield, move the bottom lever to right, if you want to use fresh air, move the top left lever to the right.

[javadog]

rattlsnak,

You don't want to use fresh air to defrost a window. You always want to use heated air. The reason has to do with the amount of moisture that air can hold at various temperatures, without reaching the saturation point.

SO, for max defrost/defog, the fresh air intake is closed and the vents for fresh air directed at the feet (because in some iterations of this system, you can't always shut the fresh air off completely) and the output of the heated air is directed 100% on the windshield.

The middle diagram is correct.

JR

[ossiblue]

Once again, Javadog is correct--middle diagram. The defrost is designed to use only heated air on the windshield. Leave the middle lever to the far left, unless you want to mix in cool, moisture-ladened air onto your windshield.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Once again, Javadog is correct--middle diagram. The defrost is designed to use only heated air on the windshield. Leave the middle lever to the far left, unless you want to mix in cool, moisture-ladened air onto your windshield.

ok, leave heat out of the equation, (as that really depends on what type of climate you live in like outside 'cool' air in AZ would be 100 degrees!)

but the only way to get flow to the windshield is to move the middle lever to the right. The middle lever control where the flow goes, hence the arrows.

The bottom lever, is the amout of heat you want to bring in, so max defrost, should be: top lever(s) to the left, middle and bottom levers to the right.

*******OK, i just went and did some research, the "early cars" are different as they DO NOT have dash vents. The middle lever control where the flow goes, either feet or windshield. The later cars which have dash vents are as Java and others have said, where the middle lever controls either feet or FACE and the red lever control heat to floor or windshield.

[javadog]

Keep in mind, when we have these sorts of discussions, that there are differences between models and years. The earlier cars had one upper lever; the later ones had two. Car's with and without A/C have slight differences in the ducting. Some cars have no center (face level) dash vent, some have center dash vents that can be closed, some have center dash vents that cannot be closed...

I have had Euro versions that were configured so that the fresh air could not be shut off completely. Others I own, you could stop all air from entering the cabin.

JR

[nineball]

i find this highly entertaining. it reminds me of something too..

[javadog]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

ok, leave heat out of the equation, (as that really depends on what type of climate you live in like outside 'cool' air in AZ would be 100 degrees!)

but the only way to get flow to the windshield is to move the middle lever to the right. The middle lever control where the flow goes, hence the arrows.

The bottom lever, is the amout of heat you want to bring in, so max defrost, should be: top lever(s) to the left, middle and bottom levers to the right.

Okay, on a nice warm rainy day, move all of the black levers to the right and watch as all of your windows fog up with condensation. Even better, do it on a cold rainy day...



I'm not kidding...

JR