Help--Car suddenly won't go into any gear!

Hotwatermusic · 05-04-2011, 06:46 PM

Yesterday without any warning my 74 wouldn't go into gear at all. From a stop, 1st and 2nd gears made a horrible grinding sound when trying to be engaged, and it simply wouldn't budge into 3rd (though it made no sound in the attempt). I revved the hell out of the engine to slot it into 2nd to limp home, and it's been parked since.

The clutch pedal has the same resistance it's always had, it didn't just fall to the floor like I've read about. I checked the pedal cluster, and the clutch helper spring was completely disengaged from the pedal. Re-attaching it has made no difference though. The clutch pedal has about a 1/2 inch of free play before there is any feeling of "clutch disengagement" going on.

The only thing that's different on the car is I removed the floorboard that covers the pedal cluster about 2 months ago, and along with it the little rubber stop that's connected to it for the clutch pedal. Could I have over-stretched the clutch cable in some way and now it's no longer disengaging the clutch? I haven't been underneath the car yet to check the clutch cable at the tranny. I did check the cable where it meets the pedal cluster and it looks normal. Any ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

tevake · 05-04-2011, 07:19 PM

Couple ideas for you. Is the shift lever feeling any different? Might be the coupler at the back of the shift rod, inspect thru the panel at the back of the tunnel or the shift rod its self. If the issue seem to be the clutch or cable.
Jack up the back of the car, use stands. then have someone operate the clutch peddle while you check the action of the cable and lever at the side of the trans.

Good luck
Richard

tevake · 05-05-2011, 06:17 PM

Have you made any progress with your shifting issues?? May be you could tell us a few more details so others might chime in and help you get going again.
The clutch fork also came to mind. Its inside the bellhousing and connects to the throw out bearing. It can break and really mess up the shifting.

Cheers Richard

mnewport · mnewport's Garage

I had the same issue a few months ago. It was the cable. I replaced the cable and rebuilt the pedal cluster. Problem solved.

BTW I've always wondered if you're in the band Hot Water Music.

DonMo · DonMo's Garage

There is a reverse pin on the back of the transmission that when it gets stuck in a neutral position, nothing works. You can push that pin back in and all should be well. Assuming your tranny is has not come apart (not likely).

midlife · 05-06-2011, 05:05 AM

If it is grinding, your clutch is not disengaging. A linkage issue could make it hard to but in gear, but not grind when you are parked.

If the clutch feels right, it could be your pilot bearing on the flywheel. That will keep your input shaft turning even with the clutch disengaged.

I had similar symptoms on a 951, and it turned out to be a broken spring on the flywheel that turned sideways. It had enough drag to keep the clutch turning.

Can you shift into gear with the motor off?

KTL · 05-06-2011, 05:39 AM

I say have someone activate the clutch while you look at the movement occurring at the transmission under the car. Even though the pedal travels a long way to disengage the clutch, the actual amount of movement in the clutch itself is quite small. So if the cable is failed or out of adjustment, it's very easy for the clutch to not want to play nice anymore.

Why did you decide to remove the floorboard? The clutch stop in the board is indeed a key part of making sure the clutch mechanical system operates within its limits.

schumicat · 05-06-2011, 05:40 AM

if you jostled the clutch stop (the thing attached to the floorboard), you may have made it so the clutch doesn't disengage even with the pedal all the way down. I'd remove the floor board and see if it makes a difference.

Hotwatermusic · 05-06-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midlife

If it is grinding, your clutch is not disengaging. A linkage issue could make it hard to but in gear, but not grind when you are parked.

If the clutch feels right, it could be your pilot bearing on the flywheel. That will keep your input shaft turning even with the clutch disengaged.

I had similar symptoms on a 951, and it turned out to be a broken spring on the flywheel that turned sideways. It had enough drag to keep the clutch turning.

Can you shift into gear with the motor off?

I can shift into 1st and 2nd no problem with the motor off. 3rd though I cannot. It's just a brick wall. 5th and reverse are easy to shift with the motor off as well. I haven't been able to get under the car yet, so unfortunately I can't get a look at what is going on under there.

To the poster that was asking why I removed the floor board that has the clutch pedal stop, I am redoing the interior--albeit very slowly--and I took the floor board out to get the carpet in there.

Hotwatermusic · 05-06-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonMo

There is a reverse pin on the back of the transmission that when it gets stuck in a neutral position, nothing works. You can push that pin back in and all should be well. Assuming your tranny is has not come apart (not likely).

I had no idea about that reverse pin. I'll look into as soon as I can get underneath the car.

silverc4s · silverc4s's Garage

I think that the clutch cable will sometimes stretch (lengthen) just before it actually breaks.
Your symptoms fit what a suddenly stretched cable would do - poor disengagement of the clutch, making for hard shifts.
Don't go anywhere in the car until you solve this - it may just strand you en route...

Hotwatermusic · 05-08-2011, 11:38 AM

So I was finally able to get underneath my car today to check out the clutch cable and this is what I saw (before I cleaned it up):

I removed the tattered boot that covered the cable to get a better look before taking these pictures. Here's a shot after I cleaned up the area:

Here's the weird part. All I did was loosen the 2 clutch cable bolts, have some one press the clutch in a couple times, then I tightened the bolts back to the point where the aft bolt (facing the omega spring) was at it's furthest point on travel. I also moved the clutch engagement bolt to where it was just touching the actual arm that pulls the clutch (I don't know the term for it) Bentley says there should be 1.2mm of space between those two but I probably moved it to within a sheet of paper. That's all I did.

When I get in the car and press the clutch my heart sinks, because it travels as if it's connected to nothing. I thought I had broken something during the adjustment. This clutch pedal has felt like you're arming a bear trap every time you step on it for as long as I can remember. Now it moves as smooth as my honda. I sat there thinking there was no way it was this easy a fix. But I drove it and went through every gear and it was the easiest gear changes I've had in the car for ages.

My question is, based on what I've done, is that really all there is to it? Or am I delaying some massive problem by adjusting the cable to its tightest position? Suppose the clutch pedal slowly reverts back to needing the massive effort it took to engage before--what would that be a sign of?

kodioneill · kodioneill's Garage

Could be the throw out bearing fork roll pin. I'm not 100% sure but I think there is a shaft that has the fork attached by a pin and it may have sheared off. The pedal feels the same because the omega spring is providing the resistance. Do you see the shaft turn when depressing the clutch?

Flat6pac · 05-08-2011, 03:45 PM

It sounds like you have 2 separate problems. One is the clutch and the other is the transmission. Only because its the transmission and clutch close together is is making one problem.
If you cant get but 1 and2nd it sounds like your selector in the transmission that guides the selector is loose. That is the 4 bolt cover on the right side of center on the trans with 4 nuts.
On the back of that cover is 3 studs holding a fork, if the fork is loose, replace, new or used, dont waste time trying to fix it. If thats not the problem, look in the access in the back seat tunnel, the swivel coupler needs to be replaced because the bushings are gone and the selector isnt working.
The fork at the throwout bearing has a broken side, you cant see it and requires an engine pull to get in the bell housing.
Having pulled the floor board and driven the car, youve exceeded all the specs of the clutch.
Another thing is the update for the trans with the 77 and later clutch, the helper spring can become frozen on the vertical shaft making the clutch very hard and non adjustable.
Bruce

FPB111 · 05-08-2011, 05:30 PM

Look at the "roll" pin where the pedal mounts to the rod through the cluster at the base of the clutch pedal.
I bet it is sheared. Watch the rod when you move the pedal. This happens when there is no stop for the clutch pedal. The other thing that can happen is that the clutch diaphragm spring can get stretched "inside out" and lose tension.
Yours sounds more like the Roll pin. It is not a standard roll pin it is more of a "scroll" pin IE: many layers.

KTL · 05-12-2011, 07:19 AM

The clutch should not feel like setting a bear trap- especially a 915 with the omega helper spring. It should have fairly light effort like you describe and then you should feel a point where the helper spring transition occurs.

As an aside with respect to clutch cables, it could be that the cable was installed improperly. Many times people don't route the cable properly to the guide tube/bowden tube. The clutch will still work, but it's got some effort. Eventually the cable will break though. Then you install a new cable properly routed and you're shocked at the reduced pedal effort. A close friend of mine had this cable routing issue after he installed a new clutch & cable.

Hotwatermusic · 05-12-2011, 09:51 AM

Can anyone tell me from the pictures posted what model number clutch cable I will need for replacement? My car is a hodge-podge of different years, 74 chassis, 83 motor, ?? year tranny and I don't really know what cable will work. I am guessing it's the "hook end" one, but not for sure. I really want to get this shifting issue sorted as soon as possible....
Thanks!