How often to change stainless brake hoses

[69911e]

How often do you change stainless braided brake hoses? Do these ever degrade like rubber?

[wwest]

Stainless steel brake lines use, internally, EXACTLY the same rubber hose as non-stainless. The primary reason for using stainless is to prevent hose damage from road debris.

[69911e]

I thought they are Teflon with the braid to protect the liner.

[KTL]

Yep they get old and hard just like plain rubber-sheathed hoses. I actually dislike the braided hoses because the braid hides the visual indications of hose age. At least with the plain rubber you can see how its aging.

Same goes for braided oil and fuel lines. The braid is a nice protective cover, but hides the age factor. I have seen some braided hoses that are bad but really gave no indication until I removed them and flexed them a bit. If you hear a distinct crackling sound when you flex them, that hose is junk and should be replaced right soon.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by wwest

Stainless steel brake lines use, internally, EXACTLY the same rubber hose as non-stainless. The primary reason for using stainless is to prevent hose damage from road debris.

Originally Posted by 69911e

I thought they are Teflon with the braid to protect the liner.

I always heard the second one- Polytetraflouroethylene

[winders]

Originally Posted by wwest

Stainless steel brake lines use, internally, EXACTLY the same rubber hose as non-stainless. The primary reason for using stainless is to prevent hose damage from road debris.

Incorrect.

Stainless Steel braided lines offer several advantages. One of which is better protection of the line.

Less expansion is another significant advantage and the main reason they are better than OEM rubber lines.

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

Scott

[Emission]

Originally Posted by winders

Incorrect.

Stainless Steel braided lines offer several advantages. One of which is better protection of the line.

Less expansion is another significant advantage and the main reason they are better than OEM rubber lines.

StopTech : Balanced Brake Upgrades

Scott

I know what the marketing folk at StopTech (and everyone else) says... but isn't this never-ending "brake feel" argument completely subjective? I mean, has anyone ever put a strain gauge to the pedal to each and checked?

My reasoning says a braided metal sheath (designed to be flexible) will not contain/restrict small amounts of expansion... it will expand as well. I simply don't buy the marketing hype.

Protection, yes. Cosmetics, yes. Brake feel, no.

- Mike

[Greek55]

I could feel a difference, but my rubber lines were a few years old.
As long as I think I feel a difference, I feel a difference, so it works for me.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Emission

I know what the marketing folk at StopTech (and everyone else) says... but isn't this never-ending "brake feel" argument completely subjective? I mean, has anyone ever put a strain gauge to the pedal to each and checked?

My reasoning says a braided metal sheath (designed to be flexible) will not contain/restrict small amounts of expansion... it will expand as well. I simply don't buy the marketing hype.

Protection, yes. Cosmetics, yes. Brake feel, no.

- Mike

I agree 100%. SS brake lines, for increasing "pedal firmness" or "pedal feel" is nonsense. There's no human alive that could tell any difference in pedal feel. It's just marketing.

The only reason I could see for SS lines is they are usually cheaper than OEM rubber lines. OEM rubber lines, which routinely last 20, 30 or more years on cars, are the better choice for anyone willing to spend the extra money.

[Emission]

I had stainless for a couple years, then went back to DOT-approved rubber. Just as happy with both, actually.

- Mike

[winders]

Originally Posted by Emission

I know what the marketing folk at StopTech (and everyone else) says... but isn't this never-ending "brake feel" argument completely subjective? I mean, has anyone ever put a strain gauge to the pedal to each and checked?

My reasoning says a braided metal sheath (designed to be flexible) will not contain/restrict small amounts of expansion... it will expand as well. I simply don't buy the marketing hype.

Protection, yes. Cosmetics, yes. Brake feel, no.

- Mike

Mike,

I used to race motorcycles. Changing from OEM rubber lines to stainless steel braided lines made a huge difference in feel that became more pronounced as the fluid got hotter.

Your reasoning is flawed. The design of the braiding allows for flex while restricting expansion. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Scott

[McLovin]

I agree, either will generally work fine. I trust OEM over the long run for this critical component, not some aftermarket lines of really unknown origin or quality. I just can't see any reason for not going OEM (other than cost, which I will gladly spend).

[Emission]

Originally Posted by winders

Mike,

I used to race motorcycles. Changing from OEM rubber lines to stainless steel braided lines made a huge difference in feel that became more pronounced as the fluid got hotter.

Your reasoning is flawed. The design of the braiding allows for flex while restricting expansion. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Scott

Scott,

I am not attacking your logic or reasoning, but I still don't buy it.

If there was "better" or "quicker" brake feel from stainless brake lines, all the high-performance OEMs would be using them — after all, brake pedal feel is very important to overall driving impression and satisfaction.

To my knowledge, I have yet to come across (or hear a manufacturer boast about) a street-tuned Lamborghini, Aston Martin, GT-R, Porsche, Ferrari or Lotus with stock braided steel brake lines from the factory. They are only used in racing applications to protect the lines...

- Mike

[Trackrash]

I agree 100%. SS brake lines, for increasing "pedal firmness" or "pedal feel" is nonsense. There's no human alive that could tell any difference in pedal feel. It's just marketing.

I chased an annoyingly spongy brake pedal on my car for over a year after I installed new (from our host) rubber lines. Bled the hell out of them numerous times, new pads, yada yada yada.

I finally switched to stainless hoses and wow what a difference. Much firmer pedal. Maybe I had defective rubber hoses? Obvious difference in pedal firmness.

The local gurus say replace the stainless ones after seven years. Dirt will get between the wire cover and the hose which will cause wear with the flexing of the hose.

[winders]

Mike, et al:

You have your mind made up and all the material I could present would be discounted as marketing fluff.

The fact is that stainless steel braided brake lines expand less. Especially when hot. Rubber lines get worse and worse in this regard as they age. This does affect feel. You can accept that or not. But it is in fact true....

Scott

[ShinySideDown]

+1

Steel lines on my motorcycles have made a huge difference in braking feel. A steel line on the clutch in an old car of mine made a more subtle, but noticeable, difference there.

[Emission]

Originally Posted by winders

Mike, et al:

You have your mind made up and all the material I could present would be discounted as marketing fluff.

The fact is that stainless steel braided brake lines expand less. Especially when hot. Rubber lines get worse and worse in this regard as they age. This does affect feel. You can accept that or not. But it is in fact true....

Scott

My mind isn't made up (I'm not that stubborn). However, I just want to see facts supporting the claims.

I am going to ask a few friends and see if I can dig up some objective proof (or, get them to investigate).


- Mike

[dshepp806]

Staying with rubber here,..as I like to see what's going on....brakes work perfectly, as they did when they left the factory! One just needs to watch 'em and change them when necc'y....

Put in whatever you wish! I'll stay with the rubber and run right along side the "others"!

BEST!

Doyle

[Steve@Rennsport]

Hi,

Some accurate information here and some misconceptions,.......I've been using SS brake lines since 1974 so I've made some observations.

Stainless steel brake hoses have teflon liners and these certainly do NOT expand as much as rubber ones do, especially at peak (2200 psi) brake pressures. For cars that are equipped with vacuum or hydraulic boosters, the pedal differences may be too modest for many people to discern, but on non-boosted cars, the difference is very obvious. I can sure tell on any of them,....

Race cars use them to prevent FOD during competitive events as OEM rubber ones are more fragile.

Like many things, there are good parts and not-so-good ones. The current outsourcing trend of auto parts has resulted in some cheap SS brake lines made overseas that I would not install on ANY vehicle. We are extremely careful about what parts we install so I always recommend that people don't cut corners, whether its a rubber OEM replacement or a SS one. Well made ones such as Goodridge carry a lifetime warranty and if properly installed, last for a VERY long time. I had a set on my DD (VW Golf) for 225K miles without issues. All of my cars have them as I like the firmer pedal feel, even on ABS-equipped cars.

Generally speaking, SS lines last as long, or longer, as OEM rubber so durability shouldn't be a concern provided good parts are installed.

Installation is key: they must be checked for twists, binding, and travel from full droop to full bump. SS lines do not suffer fools in this regard and rubber OEM one are more tolerant of mistakes.

Lastly, the Federal DOT doesn't "approve" SS or rubber lines; they have issued specifications that manufacturers choose to comply with these specifcations. One of them is "whip" and DOT-spec lines have features that contain the movement when pressure is applied. This drastically reduces the flexing and stresses where the hose joins the fittings. Further, DOT-spec hose has a plastic jacket that prevents road dirt from getting caught between the braiding and the teflon tube to prevent abrasion damage and failure.


I hope this helps straighten some of this out,

[Emission]

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

Hi,

Some accurate information here and some misconceptions,.......I've been using SS brake lines since 1974 so I've made some observations.

Stainless steel brake hoses have teflon liners and these certainly do NOT expand as much as rubber ones do, especially at peak (2200 psi) brake pressures. For cars that are equipped with vacuum or hydraulic boosters, the pedal differences may be too modest for many people to discern, but on non-boosted cars, the difference is very obvious. I can sure tell on any of them,....

Race cars use them to prevent FOD during competitive events as OEM rubber ones are more fragile.

Like many things, there are good parts and not-so-good ones. The current outsourcing trend of auto parts has resulted in some cheap SS brake lines made overseas that I would not install on ANY vehicle. We are extremely careful about what parts we install so I always recommend that people don't cut corners, whether its a rubber OEM replacement or a SS one. Well made ones such as Goodridge carry a lifetime warranty and if properly installed, last for a VERY long time. I had a set on my DD (VW Golf) for 225K miles without issues. All of my cars have them as I like the firmer pedal feel, even on ABS-equipped cars.

Generally speaking, SS lines last as long, or longer, as OEM rubber so durability shouldn't be a concern provided good parts are installed.

Installation is key: they must be checked for twists, binding, and travel from full droop to full bump. SS lines do not suffer fools in this regard and rubber OEM one are more tolerant of mistakes.

I hope this helps,

Good information (thanks for chiming in).

- Mike