Experts.. what would you do? Engine?

[Flat6pac]

Well, you can get to the point and look for some clues. The P&Cs have been off before. Check and see if the studs are magnetic, if theyre not, theyre dilavar. If the casesavers were done and with dilavar studs, the case has been opened before because there is so much magnesium dust from tapping, the case has to have been opened.
The oil cooler, even the trombone, is a great deal better than nothing. In the day the A/C was often installed at the dealer and the trombone was not even installed. Trombone cooler only came with factory air.
Bruce

Bruce

[911lvr]

Bruce,

I checked a couple of the studs and a magnet stuck to them. I also cleaned up one of the studs at the base and I didnt see any time serts but there were a few threads showing. Is that normal or are the threads starting to pull? Im not sure I want the answer.

[911lvr]

I forget the pic...

[gsmith660]

The only way to tell is to put a wrench on it and loosen the stud and see what comes out of the hole threads showing doesn't mean bad things always and if the nut breaks loose first after a little fight that is a good sign for sure.

[911lvr]

Progress today. Big pic post coming up. So I took the engine on the stand out of the garage and started to give it a good cleaning. Thumbs up for the purple power it worked very well. So now the engine is all cleaned up and I can read numbers and see what im doing now. Next step is to take off all the valve covers and make sure I don't have barrel nuts rolling around or loose and that I have no loose studs.. im slightly concerned about the head studs. on one side I see about 2-3 threads showing and on the other side I see none. A couple of questions, The heads have different numbers on them ill post pics. not sure if that is an issue and also the heat exchangers are all rusted out.. any reason I cant just cut off the outside part? There is no heat int he car at this point anyway? Thanks as always and comment/questions above pics.

So from this mess.....


To this nice clean engine. I know its not polished but it is very clean which is all im after right now.



Pics of head numbers.. should these be the same??

[911lvr]

here are the rusted out parts I want to cut off.




my poor wiring harness is so brittle and has bare wires everywhere along with broken wires.

[gsmith660]

You can get color coded wire from eagle day and rebuild your harness not good if it is brittle even worse if the insulation has broke down, not sure about the heads I would think that is a manufacture date but not sure someone here will know though as for the heat exchangers I would do my best to repair and keep, as I found out later you never know when you decide you want heat.

[911lvr]

Thanks. I do want heat but these are well beyond repair. Just thin rusted out metal.

Thanks for the tip on wire. The insulation has broken down and the wire is so brittle it snaps if moved to much. It really dosent give me a warm fuzzy feeling and as long as Ive gone this far I might as well keep going!

However, still first and foremost checking the head studs. That will determine how the rest of this project goes.

[TibetanT]

Hello There, 911lvr:

I am coming late to this party, relatively speaking, but I must say when I saw the first page of this post I thought...oh, oh. Silicone on the oil return tubes instead of new o-rings and fuel injectors that pop out; certainly not good.

After getting this far into reading, I am so happy for you. What a mess this would have been had the engine started and caught fire. There was a car in Vancouver, WA that burnt to the ground at a stop light with a magnesium 2.7 engine in it not long ago.
Once magnesium gets white hot and burns, not even the fire department can put it out quickly; it was a very sad day for that owner.

Now, I am no expert, but I don't think the cylinder head numbers are a problem. The only one with a different "date stamp" (12-73) means production date. Since the 2.7 was used between 1974 and 1977 in cars, I believe from a production line this engine maps since a head made in Dec. 1973 would certainly be used in a car produced for MY 1974 early in that year. You still have the K1819 in common, so check the part number.

Personally, I am rebuilding a 1978 3.0L which has a case production "date stamp" of 12/77, actually the date stamp reads 51/77 which means the case was cast the second to the last week of the year 1977. The other half of the 3.0L case is date stamped 1/78; first week of 1978. (Just a production run identification I believe to identify engineering changes if necessary.) Something I learned working for a Fortune-500 company a while back.

Hope this helps and I look forward to reading about your progress.

[911lvr]

Yeah I agree. I found out the hard way but better I found out instead of having the car go up in a ball of flames!!!

It really has been a good learning experience and at the end of this I will have a car that is done right by my own hands.

Hopefully tonight I will have more information for everyone...the adventure continues.

[gsmith660]

And doing it yourself is more satisfaction than you can ever imagine keep plugging along and I hope you caught these other problems before it led to an overheating event that pulled the head studs.

Originally Posted by 911lvr

Yeah I agree. I found out the hard way but better I found out instead of having the car go up in a ball of flames!!!

It really has been a good learning experience and at the end of this I will have a car that is done right by my own hands.

Hopefully tonight I will have more information for everyone...the adventure continues.

[911lvr]

Ok the moment of truth has arrived. I pulled off all the valve covers and checked all the head studs. So no barrel nuts floating around.. very good. I had 2 that were a little loose like 1/8 of a turn and then they held torque just fine. All the rest were nice and tight. So no broken head studs thankfully! So here is the thing, many of them had the stud almost at the end of the barrel nut. Like the stud was pulled some. That with seeing several studs with threads showing at the base kind of makes me think they have pulled some. The question is where to go from here? They were still tight. Also the studs a magnetic just fyi but I did not see time serts. I guess I have 3 choices at this point, put it back together and fix all the leaks, etc and just drive it for a while knowing some day it will need help. Pull it apart and do major engine/machine work or just buy a new engine. You guys have not steered my wrong so far so what do you think?

[gsmith660]

That is good news for sure you should pull all the barrel nuts one at a time and re locktight them as you have disturbed them by checking the torque and lessening the clamping power of the locktight that was there. The thing to do now is everything to keep the motor cool you have already started by cleaning it and the cooling fin mod definately upgrade the cooler. While you have it out change the front and rear seals and you can adjust the valves refurb your CIS since you are going to keep it check your injectors and seal it up properly no rtvtake the time to clean inspect and grease the cv joints.

[dhagood]

if i were in your shoes, i would think about getting the 2.7 running with the minimum expenditure possible. i'd then drive the car for as long as i could, and enjoy myself.

if you are correct the the head stud threads are slightly pulled, it will do nothing but get worse. at some point, one or more threads will fail and require some expensive repairs.

a 2.7 can be a nice engine, but it costs a lot of money to get the case time-serted, shuffle pinned, line bored, and the oil bypass mod installed. on top of all the case work, you will also have the normal expenses: bearings, gaskets, pistons and cylinders, head machining, etc.

i'd keep the original engine, but mothball it (ie, put it on a shelf for the sake of originality.

then i'd install a 3.0 liter engine out of a SC or something even better, and i'd drive the car some more. you can start saving up for a replacement engine now, and use the money you would have spent on the 2.7 rebuild as seed corn.

good luck.

[Walter_Middie]

I agree 100% with dhagood. Just put it together and enjoy it. If it needs replacing later, then worry about it. You may have many 10's of thousands of miles to go before the engine needs replacing. Just check the stud torque during your regular valve adjustments to monitor their health - and keep it running cool!

[911lvr]

Thanks everyone. i was pretty much leaning that way as well. So here is the plan. Put it back together and drive it as long as I can. Then stick a 3.0 or 3.2 in it when the time comes.

now base on that..this is what im planning to do with this motor before the reinstall

put the time serts in the transmission mounting holes
R&R the front and back seals
adjust the valves - I already have the tool
Rebuild all 4 CV joints with new boots and swepco cv joint grease
replace the 3 oil cooler selars
replace the breather gasket
replace the thermostat o-ring
replace the oil pressure switch
rebuild/repair my rear wiring harness
replace all the valve cover gaskets
replace the intake runner boots
replace the trans ground strap
replace the alt ground strap
replace the shifter coupler bushings
put new tran fluid in . use swepco
replace the intake gaskets
new fuel injectors plus o-rings
new injector sleeves and the o-rings for that
new plugs and wires
replace clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing etc

and then at this point pray I can just end up driving it!!! Anything you think I might have missed to make this a good solid runner for a while??

[gsmith660]

How many miles on it? Is this by motor number a california car? My question being if it was a california car it started life with thermal reactors and in these motors the exhaust seals usually only last 60000 miles or so while you have it out you might evaluate the guides and seals on the heads if worn and you do the upper end you have a motor that will last I would say another 60000 at the least change the valve seals to prevent smokeing that will show up at 60-75000 miles. If there is no play in the guides and you have 100000+ miles on the motor it might have already been done. Also do you have the carrera tensioners if not I would do that when you switch motors I would go with a 3.0 and if so inclined later you can upgrade that to a 3.2 short stroke the 3.0 is a stronger lower end than the 3.2.

[911lvr]

See that is the thing I really dont know. The car has 180K on it but by looking at the reference marks at least the P&Cs have been off it. So I honestly dont know how many miles are on the motor or what level they took it too when it was worked on last. The only things I know for sure are the car sat for years, a mouse made it home and I have have done alot of work on it so far..lol Other than that its just a guess. The only other thing I know for sure is that if I still have this car when the engine tanks, I wont be putting the 2.7 back in it. The machine work required on the case alone made that decision for me.

not sure on the cali car. I bought it form someone in Miami but that doesnt mean it didnt start life in cali. How would I find out for sure?

[gsmith660]

Engine number will answer that question it is on the fan mount webbing just above the oil sender.

[911lvr]

so it looks like 6348952