Experts.. what would you do? Engine?

911lvr · 911lvr's Garage

Hello Everyone,

I need some advice from alot of you who have been there done that. So I got my 77 targa in the garage and got it up on the stands to see what was going on. Well, as you can see the PO was apparently not a "lets do it right" kind of guy. looking at the pics, apparently smearing gasket sealant on things was the stop oil leak method of choice. Anyway, here is my question. AS far as I can tell by the numbers its got a 2.7 with a mag case. Number on the case was 901.101.102.7R. Looking at what I have seen so far and that oil is leaking from pretty much everywhere but def from between the cylinders and the case and between the head and the cam holders so it looks like this engine is coming out. Here is where I need you guys, Given the issue with head studs I have been reading about on the 2.7 engine if you already had it out, would you do the rebuild on this engine or just say the heck with it and buy a 3.0 or 3.2 or something else to put back in there?

Now for the pics..

Note the sealant on the tubes..nice huh?

This thing has been leaking big time for a while the trans is covered in oil.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

The problem with old leaks, is that they are likely from multiple locations.

One method is to degrease and then look for new oil paths as they occur. Another is pulling the motor and doing a top end seal with a new gasket kit.

Have you down a leak down and compression check?

911lvr · 911lvr's Garage

Yeah, I was thinking it wouldn't hurt to spray it down with degreaser and see what happens. I have not done the compression/leak down test yet. The battery is dead and I haven't even tried to turn it over yet. I just got this car and was prepared to pull the engine if I had too.

So clean and do some testing first before making a final decision to pull. Makes sense thanks.

aston@ultrasw.c · aston@ultrasw.c's Garage

I might replace a few seals, but as soon as we start talking about a rebuild the costs go up exponentially. At this point I would definately consider another motor.

Targalid · 06-03-2011, 10:00 AM

You motor looks pretty much like mine did when I got it, except yours is cleaner and you already have the thermal reactor replacements. Get a pressure washer or a steam cleaner. It is faster than using a degreaser and a garden hose. Then do some basic checks and see how it runs. Drive it for a while and see where the oil stains reappear. Diagnosis is a lot more fun while driving. I had one huge oil leak (one quart per 100 miles of driving) which was not that hard to fix once I knew the source and you may have something similar. It is disheartening to see an engine covered with oil but once you have cleaned it you may find one or two small leaks which are easily fixed. My 2.7 ran like crap at first but now it is doing pretty well. Your glass may be half full!

RWebb · RWebb's Garage

compression?

leak down values?

you should certainly go thru it after you pull the motor - you may not need a lot of expensive machining

you already have the engine, so the calculus is different than if you were thinking of buying a '77 vs. a '78 in the first place

gsmith660 · 06-03-2011, 10:37 AM

Yep as others have said clean the motor up see where the leaks are a compression check and leakdown wont hurt to evaluate the condition of what you have. If the motor has over 60000 miles then a top end is likely needed as these motors ate the exhaust valve guide because of the heat. You can do a top end easy and inexpensive if you have skills.

yelcab1 · 06-03-2011, 10:53 AM

Did it work ?

911lvr · 911lvr's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb

compression?

leak down values?

you should certainly go thru it after you pull the motor - you may not need a lot of expensive machining

you already have the engine, so the calculus is different than if you were thinking of buying a '77 vs. a '78 in the first place

I have a compression tester but no leak down tester so I have to go buy one to get the results, plus I need some engine degreaser as well. So this weekend, ill get out to the store and see if I can post an update and testing results.

Flat Six · Flat Six's Garage

Might be just the way the pic was taken but the oil cooler looks unbelievably clean compared to cylinders/case. Perhaps someone already R&R'ed w/new seals? If that's the case, and compression/leakdown don't look too terrible I'd probably degrease the critter and drive it a while to see where (and how badly) it's actually leaking. You could be seeing gradual build-up of a lot of small leaks/seepage. If the sealant bothers you, pull the oil return tubes and replace w/2-piece units -- easy-peasy.

Porsche 911 & Carrera Oil Circulation - Page 1

Flat6pac · 06-03-2011, 04:51 PM

Looks like red permatex oozing from the bottom of the cooler.
Bruce

LakeCleElum · 06-03-2011, 05:13 PM

On a mag case motor, I would be more concerned about the status of your oil pressure than your compression/leakdown #'s......That's where you will have to spend real money if you have to go that route....I know a guy that spent $6K on his mag case and did all the work himself.......You can buy a good 3.0 or 3.2 for less and sell you engine as a core........

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

there is a nice 3.2 for sale in the classifieds right now. just saying..

911lvr · 911lvr's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flat6pac

Looks like red permatex oozing from the bottom of the cooler.
Bruce

yeah I saw that too.

im not liking it

911lvr · 911lvr's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

On a mag case motor, I would be more concerned about the status of your oil pressure than your compression/leakdown #'s......That's where you will have to spend real money if you have to go that route....I know a guy that spent $6K on his mag case and did all the work himself.......You can buy a good 3.0 or 3.2 for less and sell you engine as a core........

that is kind of the direction I was leaning. If I find out I need to rebuild this I may just get a used motor that offers less known issues.

Forgive me since im new to this, I see people swapping out engines in these 911s all the time, are they all just basically a direct swap or are these people doing lots of fab but not mentioning it?

911lvr · 911lvr's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

there is a nice 3.2 for sale in the classifieds right now. just saying..

Thanks, ill check that out! I see your in Atlanta too. Will you be at the sunday meet at north point?

rattlsnak · rattlsnak's Garage

im planning on being there in my M3 (porsche is up on jack stands) but not sure. Going to a huge birthday bash tonight!

LakeCleElum · 06-04-2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911lvr

that is kind of the direction I was leaning. If I find out I need to rebuild this I may just get a used motor that offers less known issues.

Forgive me since im new to this, I see people swapping out engines in these 911s all the time, are they all just basically a direct swap or are these people doing lots of fab but not mentioning it?

Just finished this, replaced the 2.4 with a 3.2 in my 73.5. At the last minute, I paid John Walker to do it instead of doing it myself. (Had a lot of reasons, long story).

But, If you don't have an oil cooler, you should add one, especially living in Atlanta. That means buying additional oil lines, thermostat, etc. Have to drill a hole in the body and run a wire harness to mount your computer under the seat. If CIS to CIS, can use your fuel pump. A few wiring changes, not big deal. Your trans/clutch will work fine, might have to grind out bellhousing for a sensor depending on which year engine you go ....Your old exhaust can work, might need spaces if going from Thick flange to thin....

You should try to find an engine that includes Ignition, computer, wire harness, Induction, etc....Worth all of this if you get the right engine. G'luck.

j911brick · 06-04-2011, 07:19 AM

Wouldn't a 2r case be pre 2.7? Did you check the number on the case to verify it is a 2.7? (I could be wrong).

Rouxzy · 06-04-2011, 08:05 AM

911lvr,
Being a fellow '77 Targa owner I was once in your position. I ran mine for about 125k miles with all the proper updates, and all original head studs. It was time for a rebuild because I was blowing oil out pretty bad. The machine work alone to do it right was alot of money. Bottom line for the same price as a proper rebuild of the 2.7 I was able to put in a completely rebuilt 3.6. Granted I was at the right place at the right time to score this 3.6. It is not cheap to properly rebuild a 2.7 due to the machine work, so if you can still drive yours around start looking for another engine. My advice is if you are thinking of a 3.2, why not just put in a 3.6? You will have a light car with a beast in the back.
Tom