3.2 Performance Upgrade?

[Lorenfb]

"If I read this correctly, Jerry Woods is saying -- in effect -- don't go looking for anything more than marginal overall (e.g., peak) HP gains by opening up the intake tract (MAF, K&N, ExtrudeHone, etc.) 'cause you won't find it. [Emphasis mine]"

So one can always surmise what was really said and meant to coincide with
one's outlook, right!

"I'm by no means an authority, but that's how I read it. Jerry Woods & Quicksilver, my apologies if I've misinterpreted/misrepresented your positions."

It's good that a qualifying statement was made, but:

Bottom line: The statement by Woods is very explicit, as he has done extensive evaluations
and presented such in Porsche publications, i.e. There were no "exceptions" or "under certain
conditions" stated.

[rusnak]

I want to note this day: Welcome back, Loren!

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by Flat Six

On the surface this seems like a contradiction but I don't think it really is.

If I read this correctly, Jerry Woods is saying -- in effect -- don't go looking for anything more than marginal overall (e.g., peak) HP gains by opening up the intake tract (MAF, K&N, ExtrudeHone, etc.) 'cause you won't find it. [Emphasis mine]

Quicksilver seems to be saying aftermarket chip = gains on otherwise stock motor w/ignition & fuel mapping. My interpretation is that re-mapped fuel & ignition can produce some marginal overall (e.g., peak) HP gains at the risk (very little / some / a lot of risk, depending on who's chip you buy) of detonation and other woes. Besides peak power, however, I'd believe the greater benefit of remapped ECU/DME on an otherwise stock motor would come in the form(s) of throttle response, mid-range power, etc.

I'm by no means an authority, but that's how I read it. Jerry Woods & Quicksilver, my apologies if I've misinterpreted/misrepresented your positions.

Dale

Bruce Anderson and Jerry Woods liked to coin the phrase "Cash Flow Device". A specific example they gave was a very well regarded MAF conversion for the 3.2 which was supplied to them by the manufacturer for testing. After a number of tests on their engine dyno they found it was good for -5 HP. That is MINUS 5...
(I suspect it would make the induction noise more impressive which will convince 90% of people that there is a gain.)

My specific comments about chip based gains for otherwise stock 3.2 is that IF they provide demonstrable gains that will come with a risk that won't be backed by the quantity of research into the safety of those changes that Porsche provided. I personally really don't see the point of looking at this for an otherwise stock motor.

If you put on a set of headers, no cat, and an free flowing muffler there is where you may find (what I consider) noticeable worthwhile gains from a chip. Being that I am paranoid, if I try a chip on my motor (with all the exhaust mods listed) I will probably want an EGT gauge to watch for trouble as scrapping a $10k motor to silent detonation is not an option.

Looked back through my post and Lorenfb was right: I said that "aftermarket chips find gains" instead of "aftermarket chips may find gains" or "aftermarket chips claim to find gains". Lots of them reduce the performance which has been well known for some time. Some may find gains but anyone who tries that should have their eyes open to a possible risk unless the provider warranties against detonation damage. I'm not saying don't do it but be an adult and accept the risk involved.

I have been playing with cars for a long time and I don't believe anyone's claims of performance gains unless they are backed with measurable evidence: back to back dyno runs or timed acceleration pulls. Noise and vibration lies to us way too convincingly...

---
In my car I switched the DME to the 28 pin socket with the #1267355358 factory chip when my DME died a horrible death a few months ago. This made the car idle much smoother and acceleration across the board is smoother. Who knows how much of that was the repair to the DME and how much is do to upgrading to the 1267355358 chip.

Lorenfb is the person who repaired the DME for me and he has taken quite a bashing on this board. I've met him a couple times and talked to him at length on the phone and he knows hands down more then anyone else I have heard of about the inner workings of the DME. He is not a fan of aftermarket chips probably for 3 reasons... My guess is that (1) he has seen more wacked code or just blatant ripoff in chips then we can imagine, (2) he is definitely biased towards rock solid reliability, (3) he has watched a number of professionals in the chip business go through their learning curve and been bashed while making comments in their rather public experiments. A few of them involved everyone ignoring him pointing out factual errors as they piled on to brow beat him for not agreeing with their enthusiasm for chips.

I am a little more receptive towards adjusting a chip but then I don't have a professional reputation that is built on 100% reliability and I am willing to make a little risk but I would still want to see it do something on a dyno and I would want to mount a couple EGT sensors too...

----
I too want to welcome Loren back. He got me out of a jam with lightning speed and at a much lower cost then anyone else is advertising. He didn't know me from Adam but he even took the time to personally make sure I received my DME back the day he completed it. Plus I learned a lot... Incredible!

[geeze, clarifications can be long winded... ]

[hcoles]

This may fall under throwing fuel on the fire - could be my imagination but it seems there is a growing group that when they get a new-to-them car one of the first things they think of is putting a "chip" in it. Where does this come from? Also I agree that unless a good apples to apples measurement of some sort is presented claims of performance increases should be categorized as anecdotal.

[1990C4S]

Elephant racing front suspension. Poly-bronze. Good feel, good chance to figure out how the front end is put together.

[Flat Six]

Easy there, cowboy. I was just trying to clarify, as best I could for the OP and others, the apparent contradiction. I don't really have an outlook or agenda on chip v. no chip, or any other mod of the week.

I also thought it was fair and honest to acknowledge ahead of time that I might have misunderstood and didn't intend to misrepresent anyone.

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"If I read this correctly, Jerry Woods is saying -- in effect -- don't go looking for anything more than marginal overall (e.g., peak) HP gains by opening up the intake tract (MAF, K&N, ExtrudeHone, etc.) 'cause you won't find it. [Emphasis mine]"

So one can always surmise what was really said and meant to coincide with
one's outlook, right!

[zimmer266]

Although the thread has taken an interesting turn, I have just gone over a hundred miles this morning on my newly installed M&K premuffler, and 1-in-1-out M&K exhaust. The chip was the 91 octane model for this configuration.

The car is faster everywhere. There is a now a top end rush that wasn't there last weekend from 4k to redline. The sound is rich, and doesn't soft-pedal the intent. The chip alone made low speed more palatable, but I'm satisfied that this full combo is working as advertised.

I'm headed back out again this afternoon. It's my birthday. oh yeah.

[pplkook]

Originally Posted by zimmer266

Although the thread has taken an interesting turn, I have just gone over a hundred miles this morning on my newly installed M&K premuffler, and 1-in-1-out M&K exhaust. The chip was the 91 octane model for this configuration.

The car is faster everywhere. There is a now a top end rush that wasn't there last weekend from 4k to redline. The sound is rich, and doesn't soft-pedal the intent. The chip alone made low speed more palatable, but I'm satisfied that this full combo is working as advertised.

I'm headed back out again this afternoon. It's my birthday. oh yeah.

I did the exact same thing to my car about 2 months ago - SW 91 octane chip, M&K cat delete, M&K 1in1out....

Does it feel faster? Sure. How much, don't know, and don't care. It is MUCH BETTER around town, that is for sure. The idle hunting went away (I even replaced the ICV before the upgrade, and it would occasionally hunt), it seems more behaved when in stop and go traffic, and when you get a shot, it sure is sportier. 3rd between 3 and 4.5k, seems to be a little flat, but that would be my only complaint, and most likely has nothing to do with SW.

My car is a cab, so I get to hear it more, and man, does it sound good. Someone here said it, and I repeat that phrase often - "she may be old, but I make her scream". The only problem is that this new found wonderful noise really happens when I put my foot into it, which leads to increased ticket potential.

My 2 cents.

-Jack