My obsolete serpentine evap and condenser technology from Griffiths seems to be performing quite well. Ambient conditions in this pic 82 degrees at 50% evap fan speed. I can periodically get vent temps in the high 20's as well and I am using 134a. At 90 degrees I'm in the low to mid 40's.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1338560321.jpg

good for you and what did this old technology cost you?

I have gotten repetitively with only my 2 PF front and rear condensers remaining in the original OEM places and still using my original 1975 original OEM Behr tube and fin evaporator and some a/c system tweeking I have gotten similar temps down too and below 32F @ 95 f ambient 99% humidity without freezing, however I upped vent temp up to about 34 F to be safe in longer distance testing

Griffith Front condenser is $289.

Behr Rear condenser (OEM) $400.

So you can sell me your front and rear for $689?

for the SAME vent temps.

Nice

I read english. you have yet to comprehensively answer ANY of the valid questions or followup questions raised by about 15 people! and that is frustratating... and every day you are selling something new... I am not dissing you, nor is anyone else on here.. I am very supportive of an improved product. But if you are asked questions and your answer is to belittle them or provide 20 year old data that doesnt even answer the question, and you state as fact things that are proven FALSE or half truths, then what do you expect? Geez Reid, this is not rocket science. Many have been here before. My car is "upgraded" to the hilt with aftermarket products. I dont get any level of BS from Elephant Racing, or Griffiths Technical, or Don at EBS, or Steve at Rennsport, or Barry at IAE, or the three dozen others who have sold me things. I am not difficult to get along with unless i ask a valid question and the vendor gives me a load of BS as an answer or non-answer... when you are asked a hard question, answer it. dont jump to a totally unrealated topic.

example, you were called out on your research. instead of explaining in scientific terms, you avoid it, say you dont have to prove anything... you jump to evap efficiency. lol Reid. lol makes you seem like you havent a clue. um, if you want to sell ANYTHING, then YES you do need to prove it.

Quite frankly I am not answering questions to anyone here anymore that brings a negative or disrespectful attitude in their posts here, I am sorry your attitude has changed

Why so arrogant? You think someone would buy a product when they ask a question about your "research" when this is the response they get?

Why? Because you cant answer them? We are not in kindergarten. We are adults. Dont present your tech as superior if you cant explain it with more than a subject change or taking it as a personal attack. Its not a personal attack.

A summary --

Answers require real world testing not spectulation.

1. cost? for each component? as well as in the kit? What is included in your kit? For example, If I change my condenser, Ill also need a drier and expansion valve. Will you sell the drier or will you have a vendor you work with on that? It would be pointless to change a condenser and not change old leaky hoses and o-rings. I guanantee you Reid, if you sell a condener, and a user doesnt get the performance you are advertising, they WILL blame you and your condenser. That is why Griff and Rennaire sell kits and why they disacourage small incremental changes unless everything has been upgraded already. Good way to gain a poor (word of mouth) reputation... not to mention lawsuits and returns.

2. weight?

3. selling points over a well designed kit by Griff and Rennaire who have already proven 35 degree temps WITH 95 degree ambients and "OLD" technology. for anyone who has ice cold AC in a hot climate and has spent $$ why would they dump a working system? Just because its newer technology?

4. What problem are you trying to solve? Does your product solve that problem? Poor vent temps are not a problem... Griff already solved that. So what is the problem this addresses? Is it the Griff cost? Can you really make a product that will last 10 years, provide 35 degree vent temps, and charge the consumer less than $289?

5. Have you done a market study/analysis? How many pre 89 911's are registered today, how many have an aftermarket kit like Griff? How many of the owners have owned their car for over 5 years (they probably wouldnt spend the $$ if they havent spent it in the first 5 years). What is your breakeven point for production numbers? Assume a $300 price point.

6. Have you prepared a technical Q&A with ALL questions answered?

7. Filter vs No Filter? if you site a list of filters from 20 years ago that doesnt fit a car made after 1998, you lose credibility. If you site AC manufacturers and words like "every" and "all" when in fact 5 of the 6 top auto manufactures (Toyota, VW, Honda, Ford, Chrysler) use no such device, you lose credibility. In fact, the ONLY car manufacturer that actually uses a filter in a post 2005 car is GM.

8. Fans vs No Fans?

9. Proof of your products superiority? if you site research for Serpentine Vs Yours and it doesnt even compare Serpentine but rather tube and fin, you lose credibility.

10. Non-Barrier hose issue? you give us pictures of a chinese vacuum pump and just tell us to add refrigerant every year? Seriously? That is not a solution.

11. Engine temps. With Factory AC, With your AC. Same ambients/humidity. Side by side comaprison in 4-5 different climates.

12. What about that research you posted that is mixed at best against the original design and doesnt even apply to serpentine. Where is the Serpentine vs your product research? data? real world testing? side by side comparisons? We have NEVER seen it!

Its really not that hard to just answer the questions... if this is just an R&D post then fine. Say that. Dont tell us over and over again you will be selling them shortly if you cant answer these very basic questions...

Brad - I think that this portion of your post should be in reply to every new claim that Reid makes. Or in response to anyone who posts in these AC threads where Reid is trying to market his gear. That way, there is no question that the post is on-topic (technical forum, technical questions), and let his own posting style do the rest.

I don't think Reid realizes that respect in matters technical is *earned*, not merely bestowed. That's one of the reasons that Griff has the reputation he does. Product, knowledge, service.

This thread has hit bottom and has started to dig!

Unsubscribed.

Reid, I don't think this is a matter of "us" not being able to read, or even fully comprehend what we read, provided there is a reasonable level of coherency in what you write.

Perfectly stated.

This IS One from several of “THE VERY LATEST STATE OF THE ART PFC”
 

FYI If you’re interested in i.e “THE VERY LATEST STATE OF THE ART PFC” Check this puppy out, “I did not design this”, but will probably adapt its technology if it’s possible into some things I am planning in the future if legal agreements can be worked out.

New PFC technologies are being invented faster than I can keep up with them, a new type PFC state of the art technology seems to come out every week, why anyone would want old technology is something I have zero interest in. But to each their own!

FYI If you’re interested in i.e “THE VERY LATEST STATE OF THE ART PFC” Check this puppy out this is only one from many I am interested in possibly for the future, “I did not design this”, but will probably adapt its technology if it’s possible into some things I am planning if legal agreements can be worked out.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1338663093.jpg

KelogGes

I've read some of this thread and find lack of credibility with you do to your refusal to have answers available for reasonable questions.

Now after the statement about why someone would want old technology, I really have trouble with your credibility.

1. These old 911s that you supposedly have a superior ac product for are old technolgy.

2. Alot of old technolgy is proven to work.

Just my .02
Dean

I am not or have not been refusing to answer ANY reasonable questions to anyone seriously interested in what I am doing and the parallel flow micro channel heat exchanger technology I am using!

First I want to say, I am busy and cannot always answer a question as fast as someone may want but this does not mean I will not answer it

Second, I am not going to interact anymore with the few people here dissing me, or have negative attitudes about the technology I am using and are promoting older technology, and as far as I am concerned they can just go sit in the corner as I am wasting no more of my time with them. I am sick and tired of having anything and everything I post here about anything no matter what it is and being attacked by what I consider THREAD FLAMES and Nay Sayers and Disrespectful individuals

i.e. wwest, SilberUrS6, that came into this tread a year ago right after I started it and caused me to become irritated have been dissing me ever since poisoning this tread, and there are others who came along later that also truly have no true interest in this tread other than that keep hanging out here as a place to waste my time and the truly interested people who come here time.

Regrettably a few people due to their constant dissing and disrespect in their posts here at me, have caused me to get a negative attitude after almost a year posting my progress and what I have been doing and keeping a good attitude. Normally in life I always have a good and positive attitude that due to my irritation from a few people has been temporally soured, and what you are noticing is me pulling back from interacting with only a few people here.


BTW: I have never said old technology does not work, it does! If your interest is older technology then keep using it and don’t bother me with it;

This tread is specifically about Parallel Flow Condensers the latest technology and what I am doing and designed for 911’s that has the highest performance and or efficiency available in the world today for R-134A

I would like to respectfully ask the long time readers here to stop re-quoting posts here if they want to say something; unless it is truly needed because there is no need to do this,

anyone reading here already read the original post and this tread is being filled and clogged with unnecessary repeated quoted posts over and over and this makes this tread very difficult for new or old readers to read here and have to wade through all any on topic posts by others.

When you post here try to have some consideration to others to what you are doing, it’s gotten so bad lately I have been missing posts written to me wading through the crap un-needed re-quoted posts

LMAO! Reid, I would respectfully ask you to do the same.

Pot, meet kettle. Discuss.

can you make one for 964?

1. cost? for each component? as well as in the kit? What is included in your kit? For example, If I change my condenser, Ill also need a drier and expansion valve. Will you sell the drier or will you have a vendor you work with on that? It would be pointless to change a condenser and not change old leaky hoses and o-rings. I guanantee you Reid, if you sell a condener, and a user doesnt get the performance you are advertising, they WILL blame you and your condenser. That is why Griff and Rennaire sell kits and why they disacourage small incremental changes unless everything has been upgraded already. Good way to gain a poor (word of mouth) reputation... not to mention lawsuits and returns.

2. weight?

3. selling points over a well designed kit by Griff and Rennaire who have already proven 35 degree temps WITH 95 degree ambients and "OLD" technology. for anyone who has ice cold AC in a hot climate and has spent $$ why would they dump a working system? Just because its newer technology?

4. What problem are you trying to solve? Does your product solve that problem? Poor vent temps are not a problem... Griff already solved that. So what is the problem this addresses? Is it the Griff cost? Can you really make a product that will last 10 years, provide 35 degree vent temps, and charge the consumer less than $289?

5. Have you done a market study/analysis? How many pre 89 911's are registered today, how many have an aftermarket kit like Griff? How many of the owners have owned their car for over 5 years (they probably wouldnt spend the $$ if they havent spent it in the first 5 years). What is your breakeven point for production numbers? Assume a $300 price point.

6. Have you prepared a technical Q&A with ALL questions answered?

7. Filter vs No Filter? if you site a list of filters from 20 years ago that doesnt fit a car made after 1998, you lose credibility. If you site AC manufacturers and words like "every" and "all" when in fact 5 of the 6 top auto manufactures (Toyota, VW, Honda, Ford, Chrysler) use no such device, you lose credibility. In fact, the ONLY car manufacturer that actually uses a filter in a post 2005 car is GM.

8. Fans vs No Fans?

9. Proof of your products superiority? if you site research for Serpentine Vs Yours and it doesnt even compare Serpentine but rather tube and fin, you lose credibility.

10. Non-Barrier hose issue? you give us pictures of a chinese vacuum pump and just tell us to add refrigerant every year? Seriously? That is not a solution.

11. Engine temps. With Factory AC, With your AC. Same ambients/humidity. Side by side comaprison in 4-5 different climates.

12. What about that research you posted that is mixed at best against the original design and doesnt even apply to serpentine. Where is the Serpentine vs your product research? data? real world testing? side by side comparisons? We have NEVER seen it!

You might wish to follow your own advice here.

Further, the questions asked are relevant to your proposed product and are technical in nature. They are going to be asked over and over by different people in different ways. Refusing to answer them because they come from people who find your approach to be strange isn't going to make the questions go away. In fact, if there had been answers way back when I first asked questions in this thread, I might have a higher opinion of your proposed product. Like, how much will these condensers cost? Cost/performance ratio is an important consideration to anyone who actually cares about money (everybody). And some third-party report on how they work? Perferably some Pelikaner. That would go a long way to cutting through the marketing hype about how great and wonderful your proposed product will be. Most of us here live in the U.S.A., and are awash in marketing hype all day long. You consider this "dissing". I consider it being a smart consumer. Maybe you think you can use the MotorMeister model for your Porsche business, but I don't think that'll fly. Just a guess on my part.

It appears to me, probably as a result of what he has LEARNED here, that Reid is retargeting his product toward "fender cats". Basically still his "new" condensors but mounted elsewhere, other than the rear deck lid and front "chin", and inclusive of a good high volume fan.

His problem, as I see it, is the existing, proven, and very well established competition. So he will either need to radically under-price the competition in order to get a decent level of sales, or provide proof of additional, satisfactory, cooling capacity/efficiency.

Given that the products already available in the marketplace appear to solve that latter issue quite well we may be able to buy Reid's product on the "cheap".