I am Stuck, Replaced the CDI & Coil & Still No Spark!
 

I came out of Church and the car started right up and Instantly Died. I put in the Relay that causes the fuel pump to run full time and had fuel. I then checked the spark and had "ZERO"!

Thinking it was the Permatune Unit, I ordered the MSD 6AL and spent today Mounting and wiring it. I got everything set and turned the engine over and it did not start. I then mounted to new MSD Vibration Coil and NO Spark.

I then look in the book and test Terminal 15 and 13.25 Volts. I then test Terminal 7 and 31.1 and see the figures change. I do not know if that means the Distributor is Pulsing.

What is going on here? I have never has this before where a new CDI did not cure it. Is there something in my DIstributor I need to replace or do I need to get a rebuilt / New Distributor?

BTW, The people that first bought a MSD and figured out how to set it up, my hat is off to you for figuring that out. I mounted mine under the Drivers seat and still need a little longer screws to set it higher off the floor for cooling.

is the coaxial wire in good shape? that's the green cable that plugs into the distributor. they get brittle, disintegrate and the outer braid touches the inner signal wire and voila!

this is for an 82?

how is the ground connection from the engine to the body? check the resistance between the MSD gnd, coil negative, and engine.
any old ignition wiring used?

How did you wire the MSD? Create your own harness or splice/plug into the factory CDI connector?

This is what I was looking for! Thanks Dr. John. I "Looked" at a Brown covered wire coming out of the right side / back of the Distributor so I will go through that wiring and see what it up. I guess it is Connected to a Plate in the Dist and then goes to the "6" Prong plug?

I hope that this plate and wire are able to be purchased??

Distributor wire: Pelican Parts - Product Information: 930-602-907-01-M14

There was a Picture on the Board of how to wire it. I bought the Shrink Wrap Spade Connectors at AutoZone and had to add about 2 feet to the Wire Loom than comes with it! So "Do Not cut the Purple and Green Wire that have a connection at each end to the length of the other wires but make the 0ther wires the length of them!"

This way I was able to mount the unit under the Drivers Seat and cut a 3/4 inch hole in the inspection Cover for the Shift Shaft. It is Simply too dangerous to drill a hole in the tunnel with all of the tubes that connect the Fuel, Brakes and everything else! The Rubber Grommet selection at A.Z. ALso covered the 3/4" hole and the 5/8 inch hole I placed into the Vertical Shroudding on the left side of the engine.

SO yes, I kept everything original at the Plug including leaving the Permatune CDI in Place. Now If I can get this fixed, I will have 2 ignitions sources in case one goes bad!

Thanks for your reply. I looked at the strap when I was doing the wiring and the strap looked to be in good condition. I also tested the ground for the coil with my meter and it was good. (There are 3 ground wires going to this.

I did not check the resistance on the coil Ground but I did ground the Large Black Ground wire to the Transmission and the large red wire to the Main Battery cable at the Starter.

Yes it is my 1982.

The wire should definitely be green and it plugs into the distributor for a stock 82. No plate.

Edit - Do you have points?

Edit again - However, points sent the same trigger charge to the CD box - just not as slick as a reluctor and stator collapsing field set up with no wear parts.

If it is no longer green and has turned brown from the heat then it's most likely shot. There is a link on here from somone who rebuilt thiers with the existing plug. however chances of success are slim one it's been over heated enough to discolor. The plug will be brittle also. check yours it's it's the short one about 10 inches long with a plug on both ends. if it's hard wired to the plug on the cdi box. ththe you need the 30 inch long one for a 928 and then cut the pluf odd the cdi box rend and reterminate it.

Best way to check is pull the distributor out of the car. check the resistance across the the col connection should be 600 ohms. Then spin the gear on the bottom and see if the resistance jumps all over the place. if it does than the distributor igniter coil is working and sending an output signal. before you pull the distributor out do the same thing with the cdi box end unplugged and measure resistance there also 600 ohms then have someone crank the car over and see if it jumps around if it does the green wire is good and you have another problem. If not then pull the distributor and test as shown above. if it fails then it's the igniter coil in the distributor.

Can't see that wire turning brown the whole length. Just saying. Hell, I may be wrong but man, that would be some heat.

I bought the 928 wire for mine - way easier to deal with.

Also, green wire is not "fully" hard wired to the CD plug. You can push the individual female end out of the plug. This can also be a problem source as tired female connectors can be forced back when plugged in just like in the 14 pin connectors.

I like the test - I wish I had known this one 10 years ago. Why would you pull the dist and spin the gear as it sounds like the same test results could be found with the key turning and checking at the CDI box end of the green wire?

Edit - The green wire splits into two connectors at the plug, right?

you tes first unplug from the cdi box which narrows it to the wire or the distributor. If no signal the pull the distributor and test again. this tells you if it's the igniter coil. I's also a good idea to wiggle the green wire when testing it since this is an intermittant short most of the time.

I am a Happy man!! Last night when I put the meter on the 2 wires the figures were all over the place. I saw the price of the Green wire and that is very reasonable plus not part of something I need to buy! I will pull it out tonight and take a Picture! If you knew how I felt about Green you would more understand this!

All of my Motorcycles are Green, Even my house was Green when I bought it so no way I would have missed a Green wire!

before you buy the wire make sure it's not the igniter coil in the distributer.

this was a good adventure story

and I placed a 4x75 audio amp under the driver's seat

when I was pounding out tunes with the 2 front speakers and rear seat floor sub the amp would over heat and pop the auto shut down.

I bought a small fan that looks like the one inside a computer tower from radio shack that blows over the amp. It stopped tripping. There are many sizes to pick from

MSDs get hot. It seems that 75F and moderate street driving is the ambient temp where I can't squeeze the CD box without experiencing pain. Mine is mounted outside the engine compartment electric panel cover

all electrics eventually fail. Having a back up ready is relaxing

The Fan is an Excellent Idea. My thinking is, I put the Mounts directly on the Floor Pan and cut the Carpet and Mats to sit over the Mounts but the MSD Box is touching the floor. I am going to use longer Screws and small Nuts to it will be 1/4 to 3/8" off the floor for Airflow all around.

My thinking is, in the Summer time we use the AC and inside is fairly cool and in the Winter, no problem. Like My Oil Cooler I have a fan and plan to mount it soon!

and now you have a heated seat to boot.

By Igniter Coil you mean the Pulse Generator which is not available separately nowadays?

I looked at the wire today when I went home for lunch. I can see that it "WAS" Green at one time and now is a Olive Drab (Sort of Military Camouflage)

Now that I have looked up this part and see that it is not available, What do you do if it is needed?? Has someone made a Replacement part?

I must not be praying "Enough" for you! :D:D At least my wife always wanted heated seats! :rolleyes:

there are still a few places that have them in stock and you can find them on e bay still. Hopefully it's only the wire. As burnt and dicolored as it is that's about a 90 percent chance. Oh make sure before you pull the distributor out the engine is at TDC and the rotor pointing at number one cylinder.

Thanks for the warning on the Distributor! WHen they are NOT a slot but gear, timing is real easy to mess up! Please do not ask me how I know this so well!

I think I will try to find the part now even if I do not need it. "It is Better to have and not need than to Need and not have!";)

I think you can still get them if yours is bad. I have one in my tool box if you need it. I bought mine at O'Rielly's in Houston a few years back

Here it ishttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310422657.jpg

Parts Geek has them.

As Usual, U da Man I am on it right now!!

Bought for $52 including SHipping! Just following your lead.

test fit with your seat installed

AMEN!! I never removed it! I slid it as far forward as possible and then put the unit so that everything could be reached directly. My hand is my Guide, If I cannot get my hand over the unit then it is too high, My hope is that I have 3/8" under it and at least 1" over it. I will adjust until I have more space over than under for the best possible airflow.


The wire should be here tomorrow and hopefully the weather will be cooler on Thursday and I will pull the Distributor and Mount the Wire and see if that resolves it. If not, then I will install the Distributor Coil and check again.

I know not to install both at the same time because then no one will now which was the problem. More work but more knowledge. I will post again when this is done because NOTHING Irks me more than for someone to have a problem and everyone posts suggestions and then we never hear from them again!

Here is my set up. No problems seven years. Well, to be honest, the tach wire comes loose occasionally on the gauge itself.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310486622.jpg

Clean floor! Mine is back about 8 to 10 inches and mounted to Both sides of that Bar that runs across the entire floor. I also drilled a Hole in the inspection Cover and ran the wires Under the Carpet into the cover. Your unit looks a little different than mine. I have a Plug on 1 side and nothing on the other. SInce I wantged to have Carpet, I carefully cut out the 4 holes in the rear piece and then the Carpet Mat so that the unit sits Above all od these pieces on the Rubber anti vibration mounts. You have a Targa?

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...e/MSD-6425.jpg

YEs Targa. I may not have the digital one;

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pray.gif

I ran the ground to the transmission ground lug., I put the wires under the carpet and rear seats and drilled a hole in the back wall and used grommets.

I wish I would have put the grommets closer to the inner fender because when you open the hood "There they are" on the firewall

"Mine is back about 8 to 10 inches and mounted to Both sides of that Bar that runs across the entire floor."

Not a good place to mount:

1. Potential water damage, i.e. lowest point in car and all 911s
leak especially the older they get,
2. A lot of vibrations there that are easily transmitted from the
road, and
3. Load wire runs cause voltage input drops and the output
spark signal (450 volts plus) can cause mis-fires and electrical
interference.

"so that the unit sits Above all od these pieces on the Rubber anti vibration mounts"

Makes for poor heat transfer. The unit will have better heat transfer mounted flat against
a steel substrate.

My box is mounted to plywood but on the vibration buffers in pic above. If I remember there is a piece of steel that is welded to the floor but flexible - like a tab but wide enough to get two bolts in it. Keeps it away from water and the whole unit can flex up and down a little.

lorenfb - can you talk a little more about point #3. I don't understand it but would like to correct any issues if I have them/

"Long wire runs cause voltage input drops and the output
spark signal (450 volts plus) can cause mis-fires and electrical
interference."

1. The MSD inverter draws a fair amount of current which can result
in an input voltage less the desirable if an improper gauge wire is used.
2. The long run of the coil switching voltage (+450) can interfere
with the trigger signal, tach wire or other electronics, e.g. voltage
regulators.

Agreed about "LONG Wires"! My Longest is no longer than the longest Violet & (I do not remember other color) but it was in a Separate casing with 2 prong connectors at each end. From Actually reading the instructions I "Still" went 1 size larger in wire for the 18 inches I had to extend the other 4 wires. The Large Red and Black wires were not extended at all. SO I really only needed to extend 4 wires and no longer than 2 of the existing wires.

Second about Water and the Low point! Yes, when they do leak, the rear seat floor pan is where some of the water collects. Remember, I used the anti vibration mounts that are somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4" High and the Carpet and rear mat was cut out to fit around these mounts and I am extending the height another 3/8" above that to give a good space between the carpet and the Unit for AIr FLow.

There are drain holes in the rear floor that I have plugged most of them with the Plastic Plugs except 1. I would think that If I had a Severe leak or left the window down that between the drain Hole and the absorption of the carpet, I would HOPE that the water level would not raise above 1 inch! Remember mounted under the other seat there is the ECU for the O2 sensor as seen in Bob's Pic. SO if it was a REAL Bad idea then let us hope that Porsche thought it all out first and still mounted it under the seat.

"I would HOPE that the water level would not raise above 1 inch! Remember mounted under the other seat there is the ECU for the O2 sensor as seen in Bob's Pic. SO if it was a REAL Bad idea then let us hope that Porsche thought it all out first and still mounted it under the seat."

Ask some of the 911SC (Targa/Cabrio) owners that had to buy replacement Lambda
ECUs the results of water damage. Then ask the 911 3.2 owners that had to replace
their DME ECM because of a non-repairable water damage. And how about the Boxster
and 996 owners that frequently replace the immobilizer ECU unit under the drivers seat
that gets flooded because of plugged water drains at about $500 each.

Don't think Porsche really thought too much on the location of electronics over the years!

From the way you are writing, it seems more prone to have this happen on Targa's & Convertables. I have a Coupe. My thinking was to avoid Engine Compartment heat by installing it there. Now my question is, being safer from the heat vs possible water damage. I KNOW that it will get damaged from the engine heat and it is "Possible" to get damaged from water. I think for now, I will keep it where it is and if I ever get water there my Plan B will be to mount it on the Tunnel Hump where if it gets wet there I have a lot more problems than water:rolleyes::D

Now having this in the back of our minds we can a lot better look out for keeping this from being a problem. Also you have now made a Point for me that Porsche does not always have all of the answers or do everything in the best possible manner.