Heel-n-toe

or "Can I adjust my pedal heights?"
I've been experimenting with "heel and toe" footwork in the three cars I drive and find I can barely roll my foot enough the touch the gas on my 911, where I can easily do so on the other two [98 Altima, 98 Legacy wagon]. Well no not yet easily, but at least I can reach the gas on those two, and modulate engine speed to some degree. On the 911, I can barely make contact with the pedal.
Do I have adjustment, or do I need to add a block of some kind to the gas pedal?
Thanks, all.

[expat]

I don't mean to cut in on your thread but can you guys also explain the heel toe bit to me in detail. I've been watching some 911's racing in Japan (on video) with internal cameras showing the foot action. It seems different from the way I thought it was done.

Thanks
Mark

[82SC]

there are aftermarket pedal...look at www.aj-usa.com or in the back of excellence...

What I have found is that you really have to HEEL TOE...I have to turn my foot probably to 30-45 degrees...to get good heel toeing...

also I read somewhere that although in most modern cars the side of your foot on accel and side on brakes is what most people use...unless your pedals are like race pedals...(side by side and height adjusted) you will always be releasing brake pressure when you blip the throttle...the HEEL TOE method is uncomfortable at first, but now it is second nature...plus I feel like I have good control of the brake pedal...

once in a while I will be in a situation that I am heel toing and either a car stops sbruptly, etc... but having the ball of my foot on the brake helps with brake control opposed to having half my foot (like in my friends' cars...)

Whew there is my long winded response...

MJ

[jluetjen]

I've found that I heal-and-toe differently in different cars.

1) In cars with close properly set up pedals (like a Formula Ford or other purpose built race car) I brake with the ball of my right foot and squeeze the gas with the right edge of the foot.

2) In cars where the brake pedal is higher then the gas, I'll brake with the left part of my heel and squeeze the gas with my toes. So my right foot is splayed out by about 45 degrees.

3) In cars were the brake pedal is lower then the gas, I'll use the ball of my foot on the brake and use the heel to squeeze the gas. In this case my foot is splayed to the left by about 45 degrees. BTW; it's been a couple of months since I drove my '69, but I think that this is the method that I use in my 911.

You also might want to check out this other thread that discussed double-clutching which is really the only reason that you would want to heel-and-toe.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60959&highlight=double+clutch

[89911]

It can be done on your car, you just have to really "heel toe" as description goes. The pedal height is not the problem. With the brakes full engaged and preparing to downshift, the relative heights of the brake and the gas are the same. The best setup would be a brake and gas pedal less then a half an inch apart so you can easily operate both with different sides of your right foot. I think Audi tried this in the early eighties There is no way a setup like this would get approved by the DOT.

[Jgordon]

There are pedal kits advertised in Excellence and Porsche World that have an extension on the bottom of the gas pedal. Seems like that would make "Heel on gas, toe on brake" driving easier.

Hope it helps.

[adamnitti]

In my opinion, toes or ball of foot=>brake and heel=>gas is a much safer way to pull this off, especially on a 911's pedal setup. Just using the edge of the top of your foot on the brake pedal definitely makes it easier for your foot to accidentally slip off of the brake pedal completely, and you know what can happen next. I try to use actual "heel and toes" methods in any car I drive. It's a safer and more universal way to approach the technique, in my opinion.

[yelcab1]

In my Porsche, I removed the gas pedal, made a wood piece 1 inch thick with an exact outline of the pedal, screwed it from the back of the pedal to the pedal itself, painted it black, and reattached. Works great and cheap too.

[John Brandt]

You need to adjust your brake pedal so that when it's depressed fully you can roll the side of you foot onto the accellerator. you dont need that "third foot" thing.

trust me

[makaio]

My pedal set up is just like John Brandt's. Very easy to heel toe, just takes practice.

[juanbenae]

just solved that heel and toe battle ive been fighting(small feet, size 9.5) and heres how. wings engineering has an effortsless heel and toe attachment deal. it was around $100 and snaps on and off in about a minute. it would not be able to be used as kindling as the block of wood method, buy it works very well. have not had it out in the hills yet but around the hood it worked great.

i called wings at 203/438/2222 and the guy faxed me the add and ordering was a slice of pie, as opposed to a piece of cake. i could not find it on pelicans parts section, and i was embarassed to buy stuff not from them , but had too.

[jwetering]

I adjusted both my gas and brake pedals so that they are exactly level when the brake is depressed. This result in effortless heel and toe manuevers (actually "ball under big toe" and "left edge of foot").

I have heard that North American 911's were set up so that the driver's foot was at the most comforatable angle while cruising at 55 mph in top gear. Apparantly, European 911s were set up so that the driver was most comforatable while driving flat out.

In other words, North American 911 pedals really are meant to be adjusted back to "normal".

[StuttgartDavid]

Don't use your heel to heel-n-toe in a Porsche!

Don't waste your money or braking abilities on silly pedal attachments, either. There is a right way to do heel and toe. However, there is neither heel nor toe involved, only the ball of the foot:

You should find that (only) under heavy braking in a Pcar, your gas and brake pedals line up side by side. It is then a simple matter to use half of the ball of your foot (underneath the big toe) on the brake, while rolling the outer edge of your foot to blip the gas and/or match rpms on downshifting. You should do all your braking using only this half of the ball of your foot - you should never have to change your foots position on the pedal. Using the ball of your foot for braking and rolling the foot gives greater sensitivity and feedback than trying to jab the gas with your heel. Braking is the hardest skill in all racing to master and requires great subtlety, which is lost if trying to jab with the heel, which interrupts smooth application of pressure to the brake pedal.
If your brake pedal still doesn't match up under heavy braking (the later powerboosted cars sometimes have this problem), the pedal height can be adjusted via the linkage, or sometimes just by bleeding the brakes.
This may seem difficult at first, but you can practice it on the street approaching every stoplight (though it is best if you can use heavy braking to get the pedal down where it will be on the track). It is like learning to ride a bike. Soon your foot will get attuned to subtle feedback of minor changes in pedal pressure and you can really feel what's happening. If you don't believe me, try braking with your left foot - you will be stunned at how clumsy it is, and how little feedback you get. It is not a problem with your left foot, it just hasn't been trained to be sensitive the way your right foot has been.

[pbs911]

I installed the track version of the AJUSA peddels. The gas peddel has two places to attach the linkage, which provides for adjustment of the gas peddel height. This allowed me to set the gas peddel at the same level as when the brake is applied.

[tobluforu]

I'm with stuttgart. Having a size 12 foot, I find it much easier to just roll my foot over and blip the gas with the edge of my foot. Also, when first trying it, just roll to a stop sign with car in neutral and practice, practice, practice. Then, when you have the feel for it, start using the gears in conjunction-make sure no cars are in front of you when trying this at first. My foot slid off once and I almost rear ended a mercedes. This takes time and practice. You will not become comfortable with it over night.

[DANNOV]

I also agree with Stuttgart. While everyone calls it heel and toe, you instead use the sides of your foot to depress brake and blip the gas. It takes practice but after a while it becomes automatic, and you do it without thinking. I always heel and toe, and also double clutch all my downshifts, even in Chicago traffic. Just practice in a safe place (big parking lot) at a slow speed for a few hours, and then hit the street and do in traffic until it is automatic. Do it all the time and never go back to the old way.

If you get on a track in a DE event this is something you can't think about, it has to come automatically. There is too much other stuff to think about when you are going fast, there is not enough time to mull over in your mind how to heel and toe, or how to double clutch.

The pedal heights on my 1985 Carrera made heel and toe, and double clutching difficult. I bought the Wings pedal device a long time ago and it works fine. But, I read somewhere that the 911 accelerator pedal height is adjustable and that would be the cheapest way to go.

[DANNOV]

Another thought. If you want to see how heel and toe is done, rent the VCR of Grand Prix, the old James Garner flick. There are in-car shots showing some of the foot work necessary to drive the Monaco street circuit. I believe that Phil Hill was the driver used for those scenes. You can run it again and again, and in slow motion until you understand the technique. It looks intimidating but it really does come automatically after a short while.

[turbo dave]

Boy, I don't know... I use Stuttgart's method in my Miata (my commuter vehicle), but there's no way I can do it that way in my '73 T. I use the old 'ball on the brake, heel on the gas' method in the Porsche, which is really quite easy, once you get used to it. I also find that, unless I use pretty tight fitting shoes, the 'side to side' method is a little scary- my foot can roll within the shoe a little, making it a little difficult to maintain brake pressure. The 'ball/heel' technique eliminates this concern, because the ball of the foot is squarely, evenly flat against the brake pedal.

For some strange reason, I can double-clutch easily in the Miata (simple gearshift & reams of practise, I guess), while I can only single-clutch in the Porsche. Too many neurons expended on getting the 915 to shift, maybe?

[Clark Griswald]

When I fist practiced heal toe, it was on the street. I thought the pedals lined up poorly and I installed a block of wood on the accelerator. That seemed to help.....

.....Until I got good enough to try it on the track. The hard braking on the track brings the brake and gas into alignment. The wood block only messed things up.

[DANNOV]

Originally posted by turbo dave
Boy, I don't know... I use Stuttgart's method in my Miata (my commuter vehicle), but there's no way I can do it that way in my '73 T. I use the old 'ball on the brake, heel on the gas' method in the Porsche, which is really quite easy, once you get used to it. I also find that, unless I use pretty tight fitting shoes, the 'side to side' method is a little scary- my foot can roll within the shoe a little, making it a little difficult to maintain brake pressure. The 'ball/heel' technique eliminates this concern, because the ball of the foot is squarely, evenly flat against the brake pedal.

For some strange reason, I can double-clutch easily in the Miata (simple gearshift & reams of practise, I guess), while I can only single-clutch in the Porsche. Too many neurons expended on getting the 915 to shift, maybe?

It sounds like your gas pedal is too low. If you get the pedals at the proper height there should be no fear of your foot sliding off the brake when you blip the gas. It is easy to maintain pressure on the brake if the gas pedal is set at the proper height and all you have to do is slightly roll the right bottom edge of your foot to blip the gas. But I know your problem, that is why I got the Wings device, my gas pedal was far too low, causing me to cock my foot at a steep angle to blip the gas. It didn't feel safe or comfortable. I drive a lot in Europe using rentals. There is a huge difference in car pedal placement. On some cars it is almost impossible to do a heel and toe double clutch, e.g. the German GM cars seem to be particularily bad.