The "Upgrade" Question

[Brando]

Yes, "The" Question. Disclaimer: I already have the girlfriend/wife's permission to do what I want.

Seeing as my 911 Carrera is a dutiful and reliable car, the engine is 'old and tired'. As far as I know a top-end was done in the mid 70k mark (car now has 214k). It is reliable but not as strong as most low-mileage cars. It also doesn't help that I'm hankering for turbo-speed. I am facing some options in the coming 1-2 years:

1. Re-Build the stock 3.2 to a 3.4, twin-plug the heads, set-up lower compression for forced induction (supercharger), etc. My guesstimate is approximately $15k-$18k in machine work, parts and add-ons, fabrication and DWD syndrome. There would also be significant down-time (months) ushering parts back and forth, getting things fabbed up, etc. I can sell my engine to re-coupe some of the cost.


2. Swap the 3.2 with a stock 993 turbo motor (full conversion kit), roughly $21k with all parts. Maybe 10-15 hours of down-time. (Cost is prohibitive right now.) I can sell my engine to re-coupe some of the cost.

3. Swap the 3.2 with a stock 993 or 964 naturally aspirated motor. About $8k-$12k for good low mileage engines. Down-time would be in the 15-20 hour range. I can sell my engine to re-coupe some of the cost.

4. Sell the car, buy a 964/993. Only problem is the car "needs some work" before I could fetch decent market value for it. 993s are a bit cost-prohibitive but a first-year 964 C4S would be nice... I could probably get a loan from my bank for that.

So those are my options. I do like the idea of the 964 since it is already twin-plugged and has more power out of the box than the 3.2 (with much higher potential for forced induction). I'm leaning towards options 3 and 4.

Thoughts?

[redridge]

If you love your car... then option #1. No need for the other option.

If you need a change... then #4.

[jderrick]

You could also give SUPERTECH a call and see if they could set you up with something similar as in the following thread.

Mikes 3.5

[jsmithcds]

[QUOTE=Brando;6151791]Yes, "The" Question. Disclaimer: I already have the girlfriend/wife's permission to do what I want.

You have a girlfriend and a wife? I don't know if your a lucky man or not...... We need some pics to tell for sure!

#3 sounds like the logical choice to me. Up and driving after a good weekend in the shop.

[mholbrook38]

When the woman says "Fine, do whatever you want." That does not mean drop $20 grand into your pride and joy. That usually means that if you dare to go there, you will pay the ultimate price.....

Just saying.....

[gshiwota]

Go with #3. If you love your car now, you'll only love it more with more power. It's the best bang for the buck and probably would be easier to resell if you decided to do so later.

[RWebb]

the car "needs some work" so do that first; then ask yourself the above questions again

you sure don't want to put monster power in a car w/o good brakes & suspension

[Brando]

Originally Posted by RWebb

the car "needs some work" so do that first; then ask yourself the above questions again

you sure don't want to put monster power in a car w/o good brakes & suspension

Maybe I should have elaborated... The car needs the seats re-covered, a new windshield and tires. Thats about it to be sale-worthy.

Of course, that doesn't include the projects i would *like* to do, such as a chin spoiler and turbo tail. The suspension was re-done 2yrs ago (less than 3k miles) and I repaired/replaced the rear swaybar brackets and installed the rear bar last year.

It's in overall "good" shape and I get plenty of enjoyment driving it, but I definitely want it to have more power, or have something with more power.

[f3nr15]

I take it you've spent some time behind the wheel of a 964?

Having recently acquired a 964 Carrera 2, the contrast between it and my mid-year car is stark -

The 964 is comparatively well appointed and refined, but with an urgency when you mash your foot to the gas pedal that reminds you that you're definitely driving a visceral 911. However, there's less of fighting that steering wheel to maintain your aim through the curves, and the brakes are phenomenal.

However, it's not quite the go-cart that my middie is, and owning the 964 has made me appreciate the earlier car even more! Despite being a better sports car, the younger sibling doesn't quite match the older one in terms of character and soul. The 964 is meant to be replacing my middie, but instead I am hankering to keep them both, although she-who-must-be-obeyed will not tolerate that unfortunately.

If you're familiar with 964s and are happy with their level of refinement, I'd say go with number 4.

Otherwise, number 3 would seem the safe bet.

[RWebb]

3.6l

[pegasus9]

no.3 would be a good 'upgrade'.

but have to admit no.2 would be a hell of a lot of fun. Turbo 993 motor in the back? pretty sweet

[H-viken]

I've gone through the same thought pattern (haven't taken action yet so this thread will be interesting).

These are my conclusions so far;

Option 1 if you want to keep the car "original" and "time-period". In my mind the cooler option.

Option 3 I believe is, as mentioned above, the best bang for the buck.

But then again, if you go from 3,2 to 3,4 or even 3,5, then you will have a fresh engine that will last a long time. Going with a used 3,6 still exposes you to the risk of a rebuild.

[afterburn 549]

GO Turbo !

[gregwils]

Originally Posted by H-viken

I've gone through the same thought pattern (haven't taken action yet so this thread will be interesting).

These are my conclusions so far;

Option 1 if you want to keep the car "original" and "time-period". In my mind the cooler option.

Option 3 I believe is, as mentioned above, the best bang for the buck.

But then again, if you go from 3,2 to 3,4 or even 3,5, then you will have a fresh engine that will last a long time. Going with a used 3,6 still exposes you to the risk of a rebuild.

Sound advice. #3 Best bang, some risk 250-275 hp. #1 Period correct and do for lower $. You could pass on twin plug, get used 3.4 pistons and barrels, change the chip and exhaust to make about 235ish hp.

Personally, I would think about a 993 before I spent $15k+ on a 3.2 motor for a street car, but that's just me.

[jwasbury]

Some good reading here if you are thinking about option 2:

My 930 - 993tt engine project

I don't think its as easy a swap as it may seem...930 engine would be a lot easier.

I say turbo it, but then I'm biased. If you get creative with intercooling, it can be done without a tail which makes for a real sleeper.

[Cairo94507]

I think #3 is a very reasonable upgrade without a bunch of fuss and muss. Stock 3.6 with good reliability and less maintenance and lots more driving.

The 3.2 is worth what $3,500 complete with all those miles on it? That makes the 3.6 purchase a lot nicer.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by Cairo94507

I think #3 is a very reasonable upgrade without a bunch of fuss and muss. Stock 3.6 with good reliability and less maintenance and lots more driving.

The 3.2 is worth what $3,500 complete with all those miles on it? That makes the 3.6 purchase a lot nicer.

This is a good option, but I would do one thing first, and that is, go out and see what is available. Maybe drive a few cars and see if anything strikes you.

[Brando]

All good responses... I have spent many hours behind the wheel of 964s and 993s... IMHO the 993 was the most 'refined' of the air-cooled Carreras. I would love to have one, but it simply isn't affordable. Personally I feel the 964 was a "transition" car, between the 3.2 Carrera and the 993 (final evolution). The powerplant in a 964 is nothing to skoff at, however.

I believe I'll start saving my spare dollars and cents to find a good, low-mileage, naturally aspirated 964 conversion. I can always throw a supercharger kit on it and run with the turbos...

Thanks everyone for your input

... And no, I do not have a wife AND a girlfriend. I meant that as girlfriend - soon to be fiancé (come september).

[trond]

I'd go for #1, for the experience. Doing it gradually step by step to savour it. This way also would maximize the learning experience. Little fun to just buy something finished.

[Macroni]

This has all the markings of project creep. I would sell and purchase a new ride unless there is something intrinsic to this car.