Just ordered a BITZ kit
 

Just ordered the EFI kit from tony. I can't wait to tear into it and get her going!!! :cool:the CIS I have is fine, except for a few minor but mitigated problems, but with the price of the CIS components today, and the increased HP(and probably fuel mileage), and parts availability, im stoked to convert to EFI. I'll try to post some pics and let you all know How it goes :D

please post pics, i plan on doing this early next year...ive heard nothing but good things about Bitz

All right. Just got the kit in today, took a few pics (will upload all when I'm done). I'm literally halfway done. This conversion is a little bit harder than i anticipated to be honest. Some of the things i found in my car don't quite match up with Tony's instructions, but I think i'm gonna come out on top in the end :D. Airbox didn't come out as described, and i had a lot more fuel lines in my car than what he had shown - possibly the difference between his 1978 and my 1980? could be. Hoping i don't need the extra ones... if i do I'm not exactly sure whre the hell they go. Will def. post pics soon and i'm going to MS paint a diagram to show the difference in the diagram in the bentley(and tony's instructions) and what i actually had in my car. more updates soon!

I too found differences when installing the kit on my 80SC, but nothing that prevented us from doing the install in one day. We ended up removing the deccel dashpot and the AAV on the engines right side and needed to plug those lines off. Also we didn't find a dedicated vacuum line for ECU (as is recommended in the manual) and ended with instead tee-ing off from the fuel pressure vacuum line which seems to work just fine. We removed the heater blower on the engines left side because of interference with the fuel rail, but we could have just made holes in the ducting as has been documented in several posts and also on tbitz group on yahoo which by the way is a great resource on both the install and tuning

TBitz
 

I went with full ITB EFI from Clewett and did a rebuild and bump to 3.2 heads.

I think I'm keeping the CIS look for now - if i find a junk airbox online for cheap i might do the clean look, but with the value of CIS parts today, I would like to sell as much of it as possible to help recover the cost of the EFI kit. Trond(or anyone for that matter), do you happen to know(or have a list) of the CIS components that no longer need to be in the car? I'd like to remove as many as possible.

Yes you will be pleased with the bitz kit I have 2 77 airboxes one has a pop off valve one has the hole if you haven't got fuel press reg yet I recommend a better one than the one tony suggests. You will be pleased for sure enjoy

Does installation require a full engine drop, or can you get by with a partial?

I have to do a partial drop to get access to the last of my CIS vac hoses, just curious.

I didn't drop it at all - the manual for the kit says it's not necessary. however a partial drop would make things a TON easier - probably should've gone that route.

The manual also states you dont have to take out the intake runners to remove the CIS Injectors+bungs. I would advise to take the runners out - my dad and I are working on this and he didn't want to until we discovered it was near impossible to remove the bungs w/o taking them out.

just ran into my first real problem. getting ready to put it back together - while putting on the right fuel rail, i noticed the Decel valve(im pretty sure thats what it is judging by my diagram) is in the way! do i need to keep this at all? i know i need to keep the aux. air regulator, and im 99% certain a fat hose comes from the decel valve to the AAR. if i get rid of this, what do i put in place of it??

The only CIS part you need to keep is the AAR not the round one the long squareish one I think even the accumulator is no longer needed so get rid of all that crap and gobbledegoop in there

yeah. but right behind it - gonna post a pic of it quick, the bottom hose on the Decel valve connects into the left side of the AAR! where would i plumb a new hose to to complete whatever circuit of air the AAR runs on? this is not described at all in Tbitz manual.

Decel valve - the bottom hoes goes to where the AAR(left side of it) is. - - also the fuel rail fitting on the side facing the front of the car hits the black mount the Decel valve is connected to. NO idea how to remove it...
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/u...g?t=1312320978

Left rubber hose = hose coming from the Decel valve that goes into the left side of the AAR.
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/u...he/aarhose.jpg

Your pics didn't load but in Tony's instructions it shows you how to modify the AAR to clear the rail and I would remove all the hoses and extraneous stuff and put an air filter on the AAR inlet and run a single hose to the airbox. Have you been to the bitzracing yahoo group yet? It has a wealth of info and pics.

re linked the pics - should show up now. but that is exactly what i was wondering about. thanks for the prompt reply!

now, is there any way to get the junk off the back of the airbox without pulling the whole thing out? - I literally just put it all back in... i didn't pull that junk off cause the instructions didn't mention them... I think tony will have to change that...

I wish I knew what the power band was like with CIS (I installed my EFI during my rebuild on a non-functioning motor).

I believe EFI improves everything though (mpg, easier start-ups, top speed, etc). The only downside is the learning curve, which is getting easier as more people make this upgrade.

Really go join the yahoo group you dont need any of the crap on the back of the motor when I installed Tony's kit for my turbo application I actually made up all new fuel lines and pulled the CIS off intact and put it on a shelf. I would go ahead and pull it all off and then you can see to plug what you dont need and you can deal with things like the cold start valve and such and then put it back as you need it I have an airbox I will sell you for 75 and you can do the clean install I would have gone that way if I had not gone with a 3.2 intake. Good luck and join the group it will be helpful for sure when you start tuning albeit it should start and run pretty well right out of the box. Schnell the difference is astounding there is no comparison between the 2 my learning curve was steep because I changed to MS extra and turbocharged added EDIS right after that which required motherboard changes but megasquirt is great and well worth it.

already on the yahoo group - this is so much faster. they dont respond quickly over there... 3 pics coming.

1. airbox drivers side (the side you see faces the front of the car). do i need this copper line? the red circle indicates a splitter that goes to something on the lefthand side of the engine bay.
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/u...driverside.jpg


2. rear of airbox(side that faces front of car). connector 1. is this needed? no clue what it is? same with number 2? number 3 is the cold start valve. instructions said to tape the wire off to prevent shorts - this has been done. now, the outlet of the AAR comes to the small fitting on the lower left side of the cold start valve. do i need to make a new hose and keep that?
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/u...g?t=1312325712

3. AAV and DECEL valve. do i need to put an air filter on or can i run a rubber line from the rubber boot to the intlet of the AAR? do i need to make a new "from AAR" hose to the cold start that eliminates the AAV and Decel?
http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/u...g?t=1312325627

My responses are in red make sure all the unused vacuum ports get plugged that is a common error that results in a bad idle.

thank you gsmith for the prompt replies! fuel rails all on - just took off the right hand airduct for now- will cut it later to retain the heater blower function. all fuel lines on, all i have to do is wire it and put on the vacuum hoses and we're good to go. i successfully routed the hoses to the AAR to the proper locations - everything fits just fine :D hoping it is good enough - i mean, it is the same system of hoses, just without the fittings for the AAV and the Decel valve. wiring tomorrow morning then the first start up.

Good deal your welcome you will be pleased.

bout to start the wiring. for the power connection, the manual connects the 3 fuses to the rearward side of the heater blower fuse (the non fused side, according to the instructions). I do plan on keeping the blower. is it still ok to connect the power to this spot or will the heater blower functioning interfere with the fuel delivery?

I installed a new fuse panel with ATO fuses and took my power off the starter terminal for clean power and ran separate fuse for the wide band AF meter and the ECU

got everything done - got it started. and it runs like crap :( really rough idle, and it stutters when i push on the gas... any ideas? also haven't gotten megatune to work on my computer yet - got a serial to USB cable and cant seem to figure it out? will keep trying.

lots of help and ideas for the multitude of compatibility issues with laptops on the yahoo group I would try there

got the laptop working - im continuing browsing the posts on the bitz yahoo group trying to figure this out. hope i can get it working by the weekend....

Glad you got the connection working might try loading different maps from the bitz group and also reload the base map Tony supplied sometimes I have heard it can get scrambled in shipment.

none of the maps work properly :( man. talk about frustrating... spend 20 some hours putting this together and have it not work.

edit: checked for vac. leaks thoroughly - carb cleaner on ANYTHING that has to do wit ha vacuum. all vac lines, all intake runners (tops and bottoms) all check out - absolutely zero fluctuation with the idle.

do i have my dedicated vacuum hose hooked to the right spot?

Yellow circle = vacuum line coming off left side of distributor(as if facing the rear of car)
blue circle - where i have my dedicated line to the Fuel Pressure Regulator
red circle - random hole in cold start valve - do i need to plug?

http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/u...g?t=1312425094

Poking in real quick here. I have a bitz kit, and am still working on installing it. But, I will pass on a little of what I have read.

The obvious thing is vacuum leaks. I am sure you have checked those out. :)

The second is fuel pressure. If this is not solid, you will get weird results. Someone suggested in the yahoo group that it is a good idea to have a fuel pressure gauge installed while debugging.

Also, a miswire could cause some weird problems, such as having the air temp and engine temp cross wired.

Hope that helps!

-- brett

Is this the time to ask, does the Bitz kit get rid of the CIS air sensor system?

dont have a fuel pressure gauge... but

double checked both the air temp sensor and the engine temp sensor, wired correctly and installed in the correct spots.

davidbir: yes, the bitz kit gets rid of the CIS air sensor system, except that it needs the Auxillary Air regulator- aar - (for cold start ups) and i was told to run that back around to the large port on the lower left hand side of the cold start valve(in the pic). and on the inlet of the AAR i could put a small K&N filter, or as gsmith said was ok, to run it back to its original inlet on the intake boot.

Re the AAR; I'd recommend replacing the AAR with a 924 heater valve&cable. Fits right in and works perfect. Old 911s had hand throttle and you could use one of those units (combined hand brake/cabin heat/hand throttle) or just use a universal choke wire from any speed shop as I did.


Pelican Parts - Product Information: 944-572-085-02-M53

I Don't think the AAR is the culprit (yet). it's definitely too warm for that to be affecting it as bad as it is running. I also noticed (i'll double check in the morning) that the Exhaust gas oxygen indicator in megatune was pegged at zero volts. isn't this supposed to be at 1 ish? maybe i have a faulty oxygen sensor? I know the wiring is correct - triple checked it with the diagram and the instructions from tony - and it was 90% wired already - i just needed to connect the harness to the sensor. the connector in between was already done.

Hum. You might be able to get some help from the megasquirt guys. (DIYAUTOTUNE.com)

-- brett

Milo it is time to contact Tony for support and work with him he is very good at working out issues with his system I would try to get him on the phone if possible so he can troubleshoot in real time or on yahoo chat. +100 on the fuel gauge and that is why I suggested a different FPR I see you have checked for vac leaks I would have bet that was the issue. Good luck and keep us informed the DIYautotune folks I dont think will be much help as this is a custom setup for the 911 and not a standard motherboard. This really is a rare event with his kit it usually runs really good out of the box most times in 3 years I think I have only heard of 1 other time and I am willing to bet it is something missed and I am not being mean I had the same issues myself. Does it change at all when you load any of the MSQ's? Will it run well enough to warm up to see if some of the issues go away when warm?

mkay. - triple checked ALL electrical connections - everything is 100% there. I can't find any vacuum leaks unless im missing somewhere, I unplugged the o2 sensor and it was way worse - so its definitely working. I'll check the parts store for a fuel pressure gauge and install it per tony's instructions on the site.

only 2 msq's on the yahoo groups for a stock 3.0 i can download. his most recent base map and one titled "megasquirt June 18 2010".

took it out and drove it. it ran actually fairly well above 3krpm - almost no hesitations in those ranges just a little rough. - can definitely feel more power though. :D under that 3k range, it bucks and is PITA to get going. i.e. from idle to 3k or so, if i push too hard on the gas i get some backfiring thru the intake.

changed from tony's to the "megasquirt June 18 2010" file and it made it run slightly better 2500rpm +. slightly smoother but still bucks in low rpm. idle was really no different.

- im posting this exact message on the bitz group. I'll try to get tony on the phone as well

once again thanks everyone for the input. I'll definitely keep this updated.

What O2 sensor are you using? If a narrow band I highly reccomend a wide band and definately what you are saying is part of the issue if not the issue a narrow band should go between approx .1 and 1 volt so if it is 0 volts and stays there then that would be my first talking point to Tony. A wide band is a good investment and will give you so much more ease of tuning in the long run.

You are getting there if it is only below 2.5 k or so then this sounds like tuning, backfiring thru intake indicates lean I think I get this crap twisted sometimes I had to play with my warm up settings some because it sucked somewhat but I went from NA to a turbo you might try a 2.7 msq and then change the required fuel

Be sure you refer Tony to this thread so he can look at your pics you have posted and read your comments

I was checking out your posts on the yahoo group you are in good hands there they will get you pointed in the right direction +1 on the tuning ease expressed of the wide band O2 sensor good money spent.

New development for those who wish to know - Tony informed me that I probably need to calibrate my fuel pressure regulator - the manual says this should already be done - but that part of the manual was from when tony still did the full kits! - - now that he's only doing partial kits, this doesn't come pre calibrated and must be done! He informed me he was going to update the manual so if anyone buys the kit after I did, hopefully you can download the updated manual for it.

With that knowledge, it is obvious that the fuel pressure can f*#^! stuff up real easy. perhaps this is the key to my rough as hell idle? getting a gauge tomorrow morning, and calibrating the little sob and hopefully my super rough idle will go away.

the car really wants to work right - rough idle, turns out i had a couple of busted injector O rings, got em replaced. idle was still rough but the backfire thru the intake went away. so maybe the Fuel Pressure Regulator might be the "well if i fix this..." ticket to win.

will update in the morning