Racing? PCA/SCCA? What Class?

[Swoboda]

I know this is a very broad topic, but I have seen countless posts about fantastic cars that are being raced.

Do you have any tips or pointers for where an 80's vintage 911 can race competitively--stock all the way up to well-upgraded?

Are you running in the PCA, SCCA, others? What classes are you running in?

I recognize that it takes time, skill, and money(!) to race a car, and that everyone will encourage the baby steps (DE, classes/training), but I am having a hard time finding where I'd want to ultimately end up--in PCA, SCCA and in what class.

I'd like to have a goal/expectation as to what I'm working to accomplish.

Without a doubt, this will be something I'll work up to.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Cheers,

Lawrence

[Dueller]

Pretty broad topic to say the least. First, you'll probably get beetter informed responses in the racing/autocross forum rather than here.

You didn't mention exactly what year/model you have, but there are stock classses in PCA RR for most every car with the addition of safety equpment. Competitive is a relative term. In SCCA the entry level for a 911 will be ITE or SPO in regions that run these classes. These are regional only (i.e., not nationally recognized classes)...given that they're SCCA "catchall" classes you'll likely not be "competitive" depending on participation levels.

IOut west spec 911 is growing in popularity....dunno in your area,

Of course, in DE's it is technically not a competition so its you against the track.

I raced in another car (240Z) for several years in SCCA. It became a hassle....a very expensive hassle like mounting a small military campaign...to the point I enjoy track days and relaxing a bit more....only competitive with myself.

That being said....if you wanna race a 911 at any level, prepare to spend lot of dinero and years of learning.

[Peter Zimmermann]

Google PCA Club Racing, their website provides a ton of info. I prepared a 1981 SC for Club Racing back in 1995/96 and found that their rules and class structure were very fair. I competed in SCCA E/P from 1984-'86 (Regionals and Nationals) and found that the chance of having a competitive car (in its class) was much better in PCA. That said, to be competitive in PCA your car must be built to the limits of the rules (maybe even stretch those a little), and it must be well driven. 1980s models, either SCs or 3.2 liter cars, are good cars to start with.

[Dueller]

+1 on what Pete said...here's a link to PCA club racing rule book for 2011


http://www.pca.org/portals/cr/2011_club_racing_rule_book.pdf

[Swoboda]

Thank you.

I see lots of "race cars" here and it's hard to tell the "entry level" from the extreme levels.

Without a doubt money is a key element. I wasn't sure if there was a modest sarting point or if one had to go all in.

I'll check out the links.

Thanks again.

[jamesjedi]

Look at the "stock" class in the PCA rules book.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Swoboda

Thank you.

I see lots of "race cars" here and it's hard to tell the "entry level" from the extreme levels.

Without a doubt money is a key element. I wasn't sure if there was a modest sarting point or if one had to go all in.

I'll check out the links.

Thanks again.

A 78-83 SC with a strong (stock) engine and good driver can be mid-pack with some relatively minor modifications in the PCA CR Stock D class. An 84-89 3.2 Carerra in E with the same mods will do the same. For $20 K you should get a solid car with most safety gear installed, that's the best way to start out. If you want (relatively) inexpensive go with a 944 and run in PCA and NASA SP2...

PCA gives you the most track time per event, NASA and SCCA are not even close but all are fun and well run.

[Kemo]

go to the neareset PCA club race when it rolls around. check out the cars and see which one tickles your fancy.

Spec Boxter is growing and might be another option. From reading and watching... Euro SCs are the hot ticket in PCA "E" Stock class

[FrankyV]

PCA gives your the most track time for the buck. E class is where mid 80s 911s fit in and there is always a big field or ten or more cars. You can get a ready to go, competitive car in the twenties and can do NASA events with it as well.

[Willy Leon]

Move to California and race with the POC! great venue for all P cars and year round weather. Since smog rules are such a bear here its best to run these cars full time on the track.

[CCM911]

As you are in Maryland, I would also check with NASA. They run a lot at Summit and class your car by weight and horsepower, so the classes are pretty fair.

For PCA racing, be prepared to spend a lot of cash, as it seems like everyone cheats.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by CCM911

As you are in Maryland, I would also check with NASA. They run a lot at Summit and class your car by weight and horsepower, so the classes are pretty fair.

For PCA racing, be prepared to spend a lot of cash, as it seems like everyone cheats.

That was a totally stupid and uninformed remark to make.

[GaryR]

An example of a good car at a good price - FS 911SC Race Car - Rennlist Discussion Forums

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by CCM911

For PCA racing, be prepared to spend a lot of cash, as it seems like everyone cheats.

I suspect when Walt Fricke comes across this thread you'll get more than his 2 cents on the topic. He's chief scrutineer and posts here. He's pretty serious about keeping a level and fair playing field.

[GaryR]

To run at the front in this area you need to have super skills and a mediocre car or good skills and a car prepared to the maximum LEGAL limits of the rules and a top shop supporting it. The latter, I fall into, and it isn't cheap by any means. Running at the front is great, but just racing period is the bomb.... wherever you are in the pack.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by CCM911

As you are in Maryland, I would also check with NASA. They run a lot at Summit and class your car by weight and horsepower, so the classes are pretty fair.

For PCA racing, be prepared to spend a lot of cash, as it seems like everyone cheats.

I don't know that I agree with that sentiment either. I agree if ya wanna race a 911 in ANY class its pricier than most. But so is owning one of these cars just as a weekend driver. That being said, preparring a car to the absolute limits of the rules is not an inexpensive proposition.

I put together a regionally competitive podium finishing 240Z for IT racing in the $10K range. Others were spending $40K+. So what if my plaque said 3rd place....it wasn't worth the difference in price to have it say 1st place on that piece of wood. And truth be know drivers who were beating me in better cars would likely beat me if they were driving my car and me theirs. A man's got to know his limitations. lol

But I digress...the price of entry of building/buying a race car is just the beginning. Ancillary costs ratchet up fast. Do I want a fresh set of tires every weekend to gain that extra 1/2 second to the tune of $1000? Do I need to freshen the top end every 6 races or can I stretch it to 12? Any are you willing to push your toy so hard for the win that you risk instant depreciation (CRASH!)? And sooner or later you'll want to trailer it because its too damn uncomfortable to drive to track....so we need a trailer and a tow vehicle. And the next thing you'll want to drag along enough speres to keep you in the weekend if a motor pops or you lose 3rd gear. Its like mounting a small military campaign. My last year of racing full time I carried 1 spare motor, 2 tannies and 3 rear ends. When your six hundred miles from your shop and have spent $350 on entry and $300 on hotel rooms and $275 on fuell for the tow rig after just installing a $1000 clutch and flywheel the week before, YOU CAME TO RACE DAMMIT!

Its more expensive than a heroin addiction. Its like a drug they don't make! lol

If I had NO race experience and a modest budget I'd start out in Spec Miata w/SCCA or NASA. Decent regional cars can be had for $6-7500 with useable spares. Lots of competition for what will be a steep learning curve. And if you crash you can pick up a rolling body for under $500 to transfer your parts to. Try tht with a bent 911.

But you pays your money and takes your ride.

One caveat....once you have turned a wheel in anger in DTD racing, it will end your ability to enjoy the sport as a spectator.

[rattlsnak]

Older Porsches arent classed right for SCCA. (unless you run in the GT classes) The whole reason PCA Club Racing started in the first place was to create 'fair classes" for P-Cars.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Older Porsches arent classed right for SCCA. (unless you run in the GT classes) The whole reason PCA Club Racing started in the first place was to create 'fair classes" for P-Cars.

And the premise succeeded, we race and anyone that races with us is welcome to point a finger at a "cheater" should the PCA scruteneer's somehow miss it. I have been weighed and checked over as has been most front runners. You want to cheat to win? Maybe that can work. Reality is it takes more than a small cheat to beat real skill and that usually shows up. If you get away with it god bless, what is it you win??

I race for fun, and when I lose it's usually ME that beats me...

[sfoster13]

I think the best car/class/series to start with (especially given your location) is the 944 platform. Starting with DE's, you'll really learn the skills necessary to hustle the car in the corners if you want to be fast at all. It's a great platform to learn on. From there, when you move to racing you have large fields in PCA and NASA to choose from. You really can do as much racing as you want. On top of that, the cars themselves are cheap relative to running any 911 in any series.

PCA is the place to start with DE's. You get good instruction relative to other series (from my experience) and you'll start to get to know the guys you'll eventually be racing with.

One thing to keep in mind about club racing that's often overlooked when starting out is that it's about the cars and the competition, but it's also about hanging with your buddies in the paddock, at the bar, out to dinner, etc. Having a competitive car is certainly a big part of the fun, but I've had race weekends where the car just isn't working and I've had a blast. Find a group of guys you want to race with and hangout with.

[GaryR]

Agree with Sean, there are always a TON of 944s (and 924s) running in SP2 class. I could buy 3 front running 944s for what my car costs to buy and run. Also agree 100% about the friends you make (as he is one of them), that's sometimes the best part of racing..