No run/start advice please

[calling911]

I was driving along and my 76 2.7l stopped dead.. I assumed immediately it was a ignition issue because of this. My fuel pump is rigged to run as soon as you turn the ignition on and I can hear it and smell fuel.

I have a permatune and a "diamond lg-89" coil..

I get about 3ohms across the two terminals on the coil

All the permatune tests pass except capacitance because I do not have a meter to test that.

I pulled a spark plug wire and rigged it up so I can watch for a spark and I see nothing.

I checked the points gap and it was tight just as I had set it before otherwise my tach didnt work well, but I reset it to 35mm and still no spark.

I checked the coil to dist wire and I have some resistance (forget what it was).

I inspected the rotor and I see a a near dead short from the tip to the center of it..

No visible cracks or anything odd on the cap.

No oil on the coil.

I realize the purists will be angry that I have this japanese coil.. its always run just fine with that coil.

I find 12v at the center pin to the permatune with ignition on.. (didnt check start position)..

I can hear a high pitch squeal from the permatune when I turn off the ignition for about 15 seconds.. not sure of thats normal..

Without parts to throw at it Im kinda at a loss as to where to go on this..

I guess I should have spares of the coil and permatune with a car of this age.. I'll surf for them... but any idea where to go from here would be welcomed on this nice cool fall day when I could be driving my 911 around having fun..


thanks.

[calling911]

One more piece of information.. my VMM sees 12k of resistance from center wire connection to each of the terminal connections (ground and 12v input)...

I read somewhere the bosch blue is like 9k ohms from center to terminals (primary to secondary?)... so not sure if this is too high.. Im guessing not..

I was gonna run out and buy a MSD blaster and pop it in but Im thinking my coil is ok..

on the other hand.. my permatune appears well.. also I charge the caps in the permatune when I run the leads across the capacitance test connectors.. I know this because I can watch voltage fall after I run an ohm test.. it means nothing more than I have SOME capacitance of course.. but its better than open or a short.

Still at a loss...

[Joe Bob]

Sounds like your Permacrap is living up to it's name.....

[calling911]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Sounds like your Permacrap is living up to it's name.....

Hey Joe Bob.. seems like you are always replying to me..

So you think even though the "bench tests" pass (cept for the aforementioned)... its maybe still bad?

[calling911]

I just spoke to permatune.. they will check my coil and their unit for free.. sending it out monday unless I come up with something.

[Joe Bob]

Yeah, boredom will do that.....

I would suggest a PM to 'ischmitz'. He's messed with them a bit. The biggest issue with Permadooms is that most are 'potted' in an asphalt like material and can't be repaired.

Ingo can test and you can elect to buy a new one or a get a rebuilt Bosch unit from him.

Good luck.

[calling911]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Yeah, boredom will do that.....

I would suggest a PM to 'ischmitz'. He's messed with them a bit. The biggest issue with Permadooms is that most are 'potted' in an asphalt like material and can't be repaired.

Ingo can test and you can elect to buy a new one or a get a rebuilt Bosch unit from him.

Good luck.

Mine is one of the few non-potted versions... If I went to a Bosch Id have to replace the coil with a "transformer" type.. those are hard to find I think... Im hoping PT finds a problem and just fixes it for me...

[Targalid]

When you spoke to Permatune did they suggest any diagnostics you could do? You might call them on Monday morning before you return the parts and see if they can suggest some diagnostics that you can do at home.

[calling911]

Originally Posted by Targalid

When you spoke to Permatune did they suggest any diagnostics you could do? You might call them on Monday morning before you return the parts and see if they can suggest some diagnostics that you can do at home.

Their diagnostics are on their website.. and I went thru every one I could... all passed. But I cant find anything wrong elsewhere..

[lonewolf]

A coil will fail like that.
CD ignitions need the PROPER coil. you can buy a cheap 12V coil for emergencies to get you home but they won't last under normal use.
If the CD unit is squeeling then that sounds the same as a bosch ,that and your tests say it's fine.
Too much resistance in a coil wire will stop you as well. coil wire should have almost no resistance

[calling911]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

A coil will fail like that.
CD ignitions need the PROPER coil. you can buy a cheap 12V coil for emergencies to get you home but they won't last under normal use.
If the CD unit is squeeling then that sounds the same as a bosch ,that and your tests say it's fine.
Too much resistance in a coil wire will stop you as well. coil wire should have almost no resistance

"A coil will fail like that." what were you referring to? the sudden stop? did you see my resistance values? do they indicate anything to you?

PT doesnt really have issues with many coils per their website.. bosch blue is even approved.. they do have their own coil though..

[lonewolf]

I'm driving into a gas station basically idling and hit the speed bump they had ,car died. at first thought it had something to do with hitting the bump.something maybe loose etc.
long story short it was the coil,hooked up the spare and away I went

If PT says you can use any coil then go grab a cheap one and give it a try.you need a spare anyways and it's a cheaper try thean a new CD unit.

[calling911]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

I'm driving into a gas station basically idling and hit the speed bump they had ,car died. at first thought it had something to do with hitting the bump.something maybe loose etc.
long story short it was the coil,hooked up the spare and away I went

If PT says you can use any coil then go grab a cheap one and give it a try.you need a spare anyways and it's a cheaper try thean a new CD unit.

I bought a accel coil with the same resistance values as the permatune coil... negative... and I checked my my points and wires.. all looks good.. .

I also opened and inspected the PT.. no burning...

so.. looks like I'll send it in monday.. I'll update this thread when PT calls me..

[lonewolf]

sorry my advice didn't help.

[calling911]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

sorry my advice didn't help.

Your advice was good! Now I have a spare coil.. and it was only $35.00.. with tax.. nothing lost..

I sent the permatune and my coil to permatune today.. they should have it thursday.. I've tried everything including replacing the coil to dist. cable which ohmed out bad.. no spark.. maybe the cable caused the permatune to fail?


Anyway.. Im biting my nails waiting to hear from them.. I really dont want to be wrong about this cuz I'll be scratching my head if they call and tell me its fine..

[Bob Kontak]

Can PT repair it if un-potted?

[calling911]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Can PT repair it if un-potted?

Based on previous posts from someone from permatune they dont even have the schematics.. Id HOPE they'd offer me a new one at a reasonable cost.

[Joe Bob]

I find it odd that a manufacturer doesn't have schematics of their own product.

[T77911S]

permatunes are much more simple than the bosch units. i have repaired one, bad SCR.

i would go with MSD if it turns out to be bad.

[Lorenfb]

"permatunes are much more simple than the bosch units"

Really?