RSR vs ER bushings

[Roby466]

Hi guys,
Now that Clint has the rear spring plate bushings along with his front ones, does anybody know what the pros and cons are between RSR and ER polybronze stuff?
ER seems to have been around for quite a while but I was reading about the adjusting bolt sometimes scraping the body after ER installation in the rear.
Both are priced similarly (somewhat) but this winter coming up and my project list growing, I am just confused now... It used to be pretty clear, ER was the only one with a good product but these RSR products from Rebel Racing look awesome.
Any input from somebody who has used both products?
Also, what do you guys use for the trailing arm bushing when you do such upgrade?
Thanks for any info!!
David

[Flieger]

The RSR rear bushings are so new that you will not find anyone with experience using them. I saw the first set being installed a few weeks ago. They use the same sort of bushing principle as the fronts though.

I know which I would use.

[ShakinJoe]

I use the RSR in the front and they see track use primarily. They have performed great and they are not noisy which surprised me. My mechanic thought they were the nicest pieces he has seen in some time and will start using the RSR's when he can.

I wish the rears were around when I did my build!

[RWebb]

I'd love to see a comparison test on these two items.

[hcoles]

subscribed ...

I think the trailing arm goes through some twist with travel, the Rebel setup looks unable to absorb the twist, ER has some deflectable material that can take some movement. Right? Wrong?

[ivangene]

saw a set of the RSR's last week..

I am concerned about the SS part that get's JB welded in place then the material for the bushing looks to be glass filled...the glass would likely wear the SS down IMO and then what??? replace the SS part? do they sell that separate? you would have to "un-glue" it and then glue another one in place...

IDK, I was wondering about them -

plus thinking of making my own aluminum parts with Delrin bushings...

anyone have a link to the RSR's

[JP911]

I would guess that the performance differences between the RSR and ER parts would be nearly impossible to measure. So many variables, especially in the rear suspension. The big differences will be in ease of installation, ability to be serviced, and service life.

[Roby466]

For those looking for the link to the RSR product, our host has the front ones and will most likely get the rear ones in a bit of time (as they just came out).
For now, here is the link to both directly from Rebel Racing
Suspension1

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by JP911

I would guess that the performance differences between the RSR and ER parts would be nearly impossible to measurable. So many variables, especially in the rear suspension. The big differences will be in ease of installation, ability to be serviced, and service life.

agree - that's the primary subject on the table.

ER has a compliant piece and a grease fitting

RR has no compliant piece (if I understand correctly) and has no grease fitting, but says will last as long as you own the car or replacement parts are available.

My guess is the ER will ride with more comfort but the "more" may not be detectable, durability, hard to tell put it out there with temp. extremes, salt, dirt, sand/etc. for ten or twenty years and then see. This is the main issue IMO, but maybe for the usual customer, of this sort of thing, it is not a key issue.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by hcoles

subscribed ...

I think the trailing arm goes through some twist with travel, the Rebel setup looks unable to absorb the twist, ER has some deflectable material that can take some movement. Right? Wrong?

The twist is accomodated in the spring plate itself. Hence the name spring plate. It was designed by Porsche to be able to twist and flex laterally but be rigid in the up and down direction. It's primary purpose is to transfer the force from the torsion bar to the hub. The banana arm takes care of the lateral stiffness.

Yes you could say it is a little crude. Certainly it makes adjusting camber and toe harder. But that is how it is designed.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by ivangene

saw a set of the RSR's last week..

I am concerned about the SS part that get's JB welded in place then the material for the bushing looks to be glass filled...the glass would likely wear the SS down IMO and then what??? replace the SS part? do they sell that separate? you would have to "un-glue" it and then glue another one in place...

IDK, I was wondering about them -

plus thinking of making my own aluminum parts with Delrin bushings...

anyone have a link to the RSR's

The manufacturer of the polymer bushings has designed them for use with stainless steel races with a specific surface finish.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by Flieger

The twist is accomodated in the spring plate itself. Hence the name spring plate. It was designed by Porsche to be able to twist and flex laterally but be rigid in the up and down direction. It's primary purpose is to transfer the force from the torsion bar to the hub. The banana arm takes care of the lateral stiffness.

Yes you could say it is a little crude. Certainly it makes adjusting camber and toe harder. But that is how it is designed.

I was thinking that was likely the case, thanks for confirming. I guess now we are all wondering which will have longer durability. Maybe one is easier to install/etc. I suppose if you grease the ER ones on a regular basis, it should last a lone time.

Do we think the ER compliant part can be felt to be more comfortable than the RR solution?

[UrQuattro]

I just ordered a set of the rear ones a few days ago, and hopefully i will be doing the tear-down and rebuild of the whole car's suspension in november or december... We'll see...

I just can't wait to see the new parts, the fronts are so beautiful, these rears are gonna be awesome as well, i can feel it.

Im so glad they finally came out. I've been waiting for their solution for a long time, and fortunately, my ability to totally redo the suspension was hampered and delayed enough to where i was able to hold off on going with a rear spring plate solution...

michael

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by Flieger

The twist is accomodated in the spring plate itself. Hence the name spring plate. It was designed by Porsche to be able to twist and flex laterally but be rigid in the up and down direction. It's primary purpose is to transfer the force from the torsion bar to the hub. The banana arm takes care of the lateral stiffness.

Yes you could say it is a little crude. Certainly it makes adjusting camber and toe harder. But that is how it is designed.

This may be mentioned in another post. Probably Chuck has explained and I forgot.
It seems like one would want the bushing either ER or RR to be in the "neutural" or "relaxed" twist state when the plate is at or near the normal load position. Is that part of the design or install process?

[Flieger]

The bushings are designed to keep the torsion tube and torsion bar co-axial. The spring plate will be twisted a little bit depending on ride height and camber/toe settings. There is no way to get every car to be in a no-twist position at static ride height. It does not even matter since every displacement out of static ride height will cause twist.

You want the torsion bar to be nice and straight.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by Flieger

The bushings are designed to keep the torsion tube and torsion bar co-axial. The spring plate will be twisted a little bit depending on ride height and camber/toe settings. There is no way to get every car to be in a no-twist position at static ride height. It does not even matter since every displacement out of static ride height will cause twist.

You want the torsion bar to be nice and straight.

Thanks, makes sense.
Will be interesting to see how people like the RR bushings.
I like the no maint. promise.

[Roby466]

Lots of good info came out and the RSR are definitely sexy... but how about those using the Elephant Racing, any comments on how they hold up? How was the install? Do they live up to your expectations?

[GaryR]

The ER Polybronze are fantastic, I have several years of racing on them and as long as they are installed properly and greased they will last a long time. No squeaks, perfectly smooth range of motion with no resistance, very little flex. Only part of my suspension I have changed are the monoball (trailing arm) bearings, a matter of replacing them every two seasons.