Rookie, on the hunt. 2.7 engine questions...

[Palmer1980]

Hello all,

I have been reading threads on here for the last few weeks, and I finally joined up.

I'm searching for an air-cooled 911, and I have a line on what seems like a pretty damn nice 1977 911.

Yep, a 77. This one has had the thermal reactors removed (a long time ago, over 10-12 years ago), the studs checked and torqued, and also has the carrera tensioner upgrades. It's nice to see that someone has take care of the updates, so I'm feeling pretty positive about that. The interior looks just great as well.

the question is with the 2.7 engine itself...

The car has 98k on it. I'm worried overall about the durability of the motor, given what I have read. It seems to be driven on a regular basis, so there should not be much "garage rot

If anyone has any thoughts, I would appreceate it.

Thanks!

[schumicat]

do some searches for "pulled head stud" which was a common 2.7 problem that results in a large repair bill. but many of the cars by now had the proper repairs done. many people will tell you a 3.0 (78-82) is a much better bet as they had more reliable engine, better brakes, flared fenders, etc.

[Palmer1980]

^ the one I'm looking at had the studs checked.

I would like a 3.0, but this one sounds nice.

Any high-mile 2.7's around here?

[gordner]

I have a 1976 2.7 over 200000 miles and going strong, took the reactors off myself when i bought it last year, upgraded the fan and all is well. If the engine is in good shape, leak down and compression good and head studs checked go for it, if the cooling issue is properly dealt with there is no issue with these engines.

[Palmer1980]

^that's good to hear!

[Revvin 911S]

While an SC is an all around better car, if the 2.7 known problems have been taken care of they are just fine. If the car has been well maintained and the 2.7 problems addressed then it can be a good reliable car, despite the reputation some may give them. For most of these cars, if they were going to have problems from the head studs pulling it would have already happened. As for high mileage 2.7's, its only anecdotal evidence but I had a '77 that was my daily driver for several years. When I sold it a few years ago it had about 175k on it and ran great. Good luck and make sure you see the documentation on the chain tensioners. head studs, thermal reactors ect...

[Palmer1980]

Awesome, I'm feeling better about this.

The current owner has had it for ten + years, and he seems like the type to keep track of such things.

Revvin, How was the MPG overall with the CIS? I had a Saab 900 with it, and it was surprisingly good.

[Charles Freeborn]

"studs checked" is a little ambiguous. Were timecerts installed or are the original ones simply not yet pulled? Sounds like the PO didn't drive it too hard (which is good) and if you continue that practice it'll go for quite a while.

As for the 2.7 vs 3.0 debate it's a matter of opinion and preference. I like the way the narrow bodies behave. They're not as "fast" but I think almost "quicker". Engine is lighter, so less oversteer, etc. Overall car is lighter too. I happen to prefer the narrow body look with same width tires 4x. Mine's got 205's

Engine is not the only issue. At 100k and 34 yrs. old it's going to be due for some suspension and brake refreshing, if it hasn't already been done. I'm in the process of doing mine now. Figure about $2k in parts plus your time, or $labor to have it done.

Have fun with it if you choose to buy it. They're great cars.

[Walter_Middie]

My fuel mileage has been about 18 MPG around town, and up to 24 MPG on the highway.

My engine went to 160,000 miles before I found a couple of loose head studs and decided to rebuild it. I could have gotten away with just tightening them, but that may have only been a temporary solution.

many people will tell you a 3.0 (78-82) is a much better bet as they had more reliable engine, better brakes, flared fenders, etc.

I'll tell you just the opposite - it seems like more people use the mid-years as daily drivers, and the SC crowd are afraid to use regularly - most likely it's just a larger group that owns the SCs, with proportionally more folks that don't like to drive older cars regularly. The mid-years are lighter and less complicated, and they have the much better looking narrow bodies without the rear flares that plague the later SCs.

[Palmer1980]

This is all great information, I really appreceate it.


Here is what he said about the studs, and the engine in general:

"When I first bought the car I had the valves adjusted, the cylinder bolts re-torqued, transmission oil changed, and Carrera hydraulic cam tensioners installed - all at "Flat Six", a Porsche specialist. I have changed the oil and filter annually, but I did not change the oil this spring - it probably only has a few hundred miles on the last oil change, but should be changed again due to time.

On my car the thermal reactors were removed long, long before I bought it. The exhaust system was replaced with an older style (no pollution controls). I had the cylinder bolts re-torqued to see if they are good, and they all are. It should continue to be fine, especially if the engine is not allowed to overheat. Apparently this is a bigger problem in warm climates like CA, AZ, or FL.

Sounds like the originals are still in there. Sounds ok overall though. I have some cash set aside for a freshening. I do that with all my cars, and do the bulk of the work myself. It's still fun to me, so I'll keep at it!

[Charles Freeborn]

Originally Posted by Walter_Middie

My fuel mileage has been about 18 MPG around town, and up to 24 MPG on the highway.

I'll tell you just the opposite - it seems like more people use the mid-years as daily drivers, and the SC crowd are afraid to use regularly - most likely it's just a larger group that owns the SCs, with proportionally more folks that don't like to drive older cars regularly. The mid-years are lighter and less complicated, and they have the much better looking narrow bodies without the rear flares that plague the later SCs.

Same here. Narrow bodies rule!
-C

[RoninLB]

the 1977 should have a fender cooler installed in my opinion

head studs are an issue except for a Canadian car or I guess an Idaho or Washington car

the stock CIS is a good reliable simple induction delivering to me, years ago, 24 mpg at 65 mph steady

the distributor with the vacuum disconnected and total timing set at 35 makes it snappier


personally... the 1977 is looked down on so much that it wouldn't be much effort to find one that had a ton of $ sunk into it that's for sale at a good price

full engine rebuilds are big bucks

[Palmer1980]

I was looking at those just now actually!

Pretty much what I'm finding out as I look around. All of the 14k+ newer cars I see have issues. I mean it seems like most do, but for the money...

[dhagood]

Originally Posted by RoninLB

the 1977 should have a fender cooler installed in my opinion

the biggest enemy to magnesium engine cases is heat. keep excessive heat (210 degrees fahrenheit or so) out of the engine, and the case won't warp and the head studs won't be so inclined to pull out of the case. the easiest way to do that is to add an external oil cooler.

[gordner]

I should add to my earlier post, My 76 has a loop cooler in the fender, and before the 11 bladed fan was added heat was still defnitely a concern. I am just lucky that the last 2 PO's drove it like a classic antique, very easy on the throttle. Not so much me lol.
I would agree with the narrow body comments above, I think they not only look better (personal opinion I know) but they are incredibly light and responsive. I would take my "quick" mid year over a "fast" heavier later year any day!

[Palmer1980]

I spent a week driving a 67ish 912 in Portland a couple of years ago.

Made my Miata feel like a depravation tank, the steering feel on the 912 was just amazing, and the sound of the engine...wow. He had a big bore kit, and some cams, and it was just
amazing.


I would rather have quck than fast as well...that's why I bought the miata. Ha.


Going to look at the car in the morning, I'm sure I'll come up with more questions for you fine people.

[Reifle]

I love my '77 with its 2.7. Runs like a champ and surprisingly quick too! Mine came from the States and brought to Canada about 15 years ago. Yes the engine is rebuilt (p/o) with all the updates. Have the car properly inspected and enjoy it!

[Palmer1980]

Thanks for the input everyone!

[Eagledriver]

Although most 2.7 engines are subject to pulled studs (before case savers/timecerts), the 1977 might do better (like this one seems to). It has dilivar studs on the lower row of headstuds.

-Andy

[JohnJL]

What are the compression and leakdown figures?