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Diss Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SC - (Aiken in the 'other' SC)
Posts: 5,020
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BMW direct ignition coils on a 911.
I'm working on a direct ignition conversion setup for my 3.2 and I'm trying to find a resource for dimensions and specs for BMW coils. I have been looking at the 01 to 06 M3 coils and the 96 to 03 5 series coils but dimensions and specs aren't readily available.
I need to make sure that whatever I pick will fit without sticking out too far. I'd like it to be fairly inexpensive, and I need to know how much current it will draw and if it needs protection circuits, etc... Any help would be appreciated.
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- "Speed kills! How fast do you want to go?" - anon. - "If More is better then Too Much is just right!!!" - Mad Mac Durgeloh -- Wayne - 87 Carrera coupe -> The pooch. |
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12-02-2011, 10:02 AM
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Wer bremst verliert
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,767
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Someone just listed Toyota 90919-02246 coils as working on another thread.
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2007 911 Turbo - Not a toy 1985 911 Cab - Wife's toy 1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy 1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen" 1971 911 Targa S backroad toy |
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12-02-2011, 10:03 AM
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The Cosworth Singers are using Denso units from a motorcycle
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Bill Verburg '76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone) | Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes | |
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12-02-2011, 10:46 AM
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Registered
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: I live on the road, I just stay here sometimes...
Posts: 7,104
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I had read about someone using a fuel injection system triumph triple (bike) on a 911 engine.
I wonder if bikes could also be doners for this as well?
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73 RSR replica (soon for sale) SOLD - 928 5 speed with phone dials and Pasha seats SOLD - 914 wide body hot rod My 73RSR build http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/893954-saving-73-crusher-again.html |
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12-02-2011, 10:48 AM
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Registered
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: I live on the road, I just stay here sometimes...
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Bill just beat me to it. I guess there is my answer
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73 RSR replica (soon for sale) SOLD - 928 5 speed with phone dials and Pasha seats SOLD - 914 wide body hot rod My 73RSR build http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/893954-saving-73-crusher-again.html Last edited by wayner; 12-02-2011 at 10:50 AM.. |
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12-02-2011, 10:48 AM
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Flat Six
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Quote:
Really slick solution . . . Triumph Speed Triple
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Dale 1985 Carrera 3.2 2013 Audi Q5 2.0T / 2005 BMW 325ci |
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12-02-2011, 01:54 PM
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Diss Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SC - (Aiken in the 'other' SC)
Posts: 5,020
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If the Toyota Camry/Highlander have the right length the circular bottom has the possibility of being a great fit but they are almost twice the price of the BMW coils! That really seems odd with the volume of Toyotas that are produced.
The fact that you can't find spec sheets on OEM parts in during the, "Information Age" in infuriating...
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- "Speed kills! How fast do you want to go?" - anon. - "If More is better then Too Much is just right!!!" - Mad Mac Durgeloh -- Wayne - 87 Carrera coupe -> The pooch. |
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12-02-2011, 02:58 PM
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Diss Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SC - (Aiken in the 'other' SC)
Posts: 5,020
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Tried to find some info on exactly which Denso motorcycle coil they might have used on the Singer and the only things I learned were:
- The Singer/Cosworth Porsche is so sexy my eyes started watering instantly and - The car costs so much the coils are probably made of gold plated platinum...
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- "Speed kills! How fast do you want to go?" - anon. - "If More is better then Too Much is just right!!!" - Mad Mac Durgeloh -- Wayne - 87 Carrera coupe -> The pooch. |
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12-02-2011, 03:31 PM
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,569
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They are not so expensive, buy one and see if it fits.
Bosch Motorsport makes some that have an igniter built in and easily fit down the plug hole. Now THOSE are expensive. Check on ebay, you can get Denso, Beru, Bosch from a variety of applications. The real issue is size, followed by primary resistance, inductance and secondary resistance in that order.
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen ‘96 993 Carrera 2 Polarsilber '81 R65 Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13) Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02) Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04) Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20) |
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12-02-2011, 05:11 PM
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Diss Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SC - (Aiken in the 'other' SC)
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Quote:
Seeing that I'm designing the driver circuits I can live with a wide range of coil electrical values. It would be nice to know what those limits were as I have been ordering the pieces for the signaling, the logic, plus the darlingtons.... (Wish I understood the calculation of debouncing digital signals better...  )
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- "Speed kills! How fast do you want to go?" - anon. - "If More is better then Too Much is just right!!!" - Mad Mac Durgeloh -- Wayne - 87 Carrera coupe -> The pooch. |
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12-03-2011, 07:24 AM
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,569
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As far as I can tell, and I've been looking for a long time, they aren't published anywhere.
I have a nice inventory of very inexpensively acquired coils from eBay that I use a similarly inexpensive LCR meter to measure the inductance and resistance with. They are all canister type however. Not even the Bosch Motorsports catalog carries the inductance of the pencil coils, for example, although it does give energy in mJ. Bosch talks about driving them with an IGBT, IRG4BC40S. http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irg4bc40s.pdf You're probably using an IGBT as a coil driver.
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen ‘96 993 Carrera 2 Polarsilber '81 R65 Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13) Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02) Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04) Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20) |
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12-03-2011, 03:51 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Mar 2008
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I found this thread online where the guy used these Bmw coils with edis.
http://www.hbci.com/~tskwiot/2002_MSII.html Maybe it helps. I have a few of these coils laying around and have thought about using them for my efi conversion as well. I'll assemble one of my cylinder heads to the camtower and valve cover and check the fit. |
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12-05-2011, 03:41 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Here are a few pictures of how the BMW coils fit.
I have it plugged into a spark plug so this is how far it will actually stick out.   
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12-05-2011, 06:28 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Black Rock, CT
Posts: 4,345
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I have an 03 M3. If it helps I can measure one for you. (He says, having never removed one!) Cars not here, so I can't do it tomorrow or anything, but I can go visit it in storage if you need.
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Jake Gulick, Black Rock, CT. '73 yellow 911E , & 2003 BMW M3 Cab. Ex: 84 Mazda RX-7 SCCA racer. did ok with it, set some records, won some races, but it wore out, LOL[/B] |
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12-05-2011, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
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The Uncertainty Principle. It proves we can't ever really know...what's going on. So it shouldn't bother you. Not being able to figure anything out. Although you will be responsible for this on the mid-term. -Larry Gopnik |
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12-05-2011, 08:13 PM
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Diss Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SC - (Aiken in the 'other' SC)
Posts: 5,020
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Quote:
Never would have thought they would protrude that far. It is technically doable but they might be hard to remove. For a dual plug app it would have problems with header clearance I think. More searching... I think an ebay search will probably give me the best idea of cost effective possibilities for coils. (Pretty sad when ebay is your best tool!) Turns out a friend's son works an autoparts store so I can probably abuse that relationship...  Quote:
I did misspeak when I said "debounce". Technically what I am looking at is a snubber. I'm only needing to protect the darlingtons from the coil and then protect the OR gates feeding the darlingtons. The speed is something I'm having to keep my eye on. At 7000 rpm 1 degree works out to about 0.0000238 of a second! Things need to happen fast to keep from retarding the spark.
__________________
- "Speed kills! How fast do you want to go?" - anon. - "If More is better then Too Much is just right!!!" - Mad Mac Durgeloh -- Wayne - 87 Carrera coupe -> The pooch. |
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12-06-2011, 07:34 AM
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Here are a few pics of the Singer setup
 
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Bill Verburg '76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone) | Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes | |
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12-06-2011, 07:53 AM
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__________________
Bill Verburg '76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone) | Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes | |
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12-06-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
__________________
The Uncertainty Principle. It proves we can't ever really know...what's going on. So it shouldn't bother you. Not being able to figure anything out. Although you will be responsible for this on the mid-term. -Larry Gopnik |
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12-06-2011, 01:10 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Yamhill OR.
Posts: 455
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One might also consider length. I use VW 1.8T coils (the latest version) and they are sometimes a little hard to remove as they hit the body of the car. If they were much longer I don't know if they would come out.
They do fit 964 cover very well top and bottom. 
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12-06-2011, 01:38 PM
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1976 Porsche Carrera 3.0
1995 Porsche 993 Carrera Coupe
1985 Porsche Carrera
2007 Audi S8
1983 Porsche 911SC
