Questions on changing from M1 to Brad Penn oil in 1989 3.2 911

[89PS911]

I have pretty much decided to change over from M1 (5W40) to Brad Penn oil (20W50) due to the ZDDP issue. I purchased my 1989 3.2 911 in June 2011. The PO said the car had been running M1 5W40 for at least the previous 8 years, and, as far as he knew, the PO to him had also used M1. The car has 68,500 miles on it, no oil leaks from it anywhere, and it burns a quart of oil every 1,500 miles. I have done one oil change since I purchased the car. I drive the car about 100 miles a week on long weekend drives in the Maryland/Virginia countryside.

My questions:

Should I definitely change oils in a car that has been running synthetic oil for so long, or could that lead to effects on seals, etc that may cause problems?

If I do change over to Brad Penn, how do I address the issue of mixing new non-synthetic oil with some left over synthetic since so much (I understand a quart or more) remains in the sump after any oil change? Is it OK to leave the quart of M1 in the sump and have it gradually diluted during subsequent oil changes?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[mystro]

Dont change over to Brad Penn. Why not use a full synthetic in your car if it does well with full synthetic oil. If you feel you need ZDDP, get Royal Purple full synthetic that has ZDDP and stay full synthetic. Its the best oil to use in your 911 air cooled car if price isnt a object...(its not that much more $$)

Check out the video oil test....
http://www.royalpurple.com/videos/#!hps-high-film-strength-street-motor-oil

This is a response on what oils to buy for are air cooled 911 from Royal Purple.....
This is from a previous oil thread..


Good afternoon.

I just wanted to pass on some information related to this thread topic since we (Royal Purple) recently reformulated our SAE/API street oils and although both old and new formula are still often able to be found, a little checking of the back label for the API license will be worth doing.

Due to the reduction in anti wear from the API-SM cap of 800ppm phosphorus our SAE/API-SM and SN street oils are no longer the best choice for flat tappet performance engines with lifts above .500". We do not recommend our SAE/API-SN 20W-50 (part #01250, quart bottle) or SAE/API-SN 10W-40 (part #01140, quart bottle) for those applications any longer.

There are still multiple Royal Purple oils available that are appropriate and though exact levels are proprietary, typical zinc and phosphorus are in excess of 1200ppm.

Those appropriate and recommended oils for air cooled Porsche engines are as follows.
If you can still find the old formula Royal Purple API-SL SAE 10w-40 and API-SJ 20W-50 those are fine and though they are not your best choice(from us) they will still be better than many other oils on the shelves these days.

As you go down the list the level of performance and protection increases and the price will too.

Royal Purple HPS 10W-40 (part #31140, quart bottle)(new)
Royal Purple HPS 20W-50 (part #31250, quart bottle)(new)

Royal Purple Max Cycle 10W-40 (part #01315, quart bottle)(unchanged)
Royal Purple Max Cycle 20W-50 (part #01315, quart bottle)(unchanged)

Royal Purple XPR 10W-40 (part #01041, quart bottle)(unchanged)
Royal Purple XPR 20W-50 (part #01051, quart bottle)(unchanged)

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at the Royal Purple technical support department 8-5 mon-fri @ 888-382-6300

or via email : jmorrissey@royalpurple.com
or the general tech department email: rpautotech@royalpurple.com

Thank you for allowing me to share this important update.

Jim Morrissey
Technical Services
Royal Purple, Inc.
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[shrtshck]

There is no issue with mixing a small amount of synthetic with non synthetic oil. The issue with switching from dino oil to a synthetic causing oil leaks has largely been addressed through changes made to the synthetic oil additive packages. When synthetics were first introduced they reacted differently with the engine seals. They tended to cause less swelling thus causing leaks in engines that prevoiusly did not leak when using dino oil. The additive packages in synthetic oils were reworked to address the issue and they now react on seals in the same way as dino oil.
I run run BP 20w-50 in my 911 and M1 10w-40 in my motorcyle, both products are top notch.
If you choose to remain with M1 I'd recommend you use a heavier grade than 5w, maybe 15w-40 or 20w-50.
There are too many oil threads to count and more opinions than I care to think about. Both products will provide the protection you need, but I'd look at using a different grade of M1.

[uwanna]

Brad Penn 20/50 is not pure dino oil. It is part synthetic/part dino. So you will have no problem changing to it from M1, even if some M1 remains in the system after draining oil!

[Dublinoh]

This is what the mobile 1 site recommends 0w-40...so like so many oil threads I remain confused

What's the right oil for my car?

[HarryD]

Check the opinions on those who have done lots of engine builds. My local guru says to use 20W-50. His brands of choice include SWEPCO and Brad Penn.

[RWebb]

do what Harry says, and don't worry about any mixing

[Bill Verburg]

Nothing wrong w/ M1 15w-50, it's much better zddp wise than their 5w-40 and better weight wise except for winter use

also there is no concern wrt mixing the different sorts of oil or of changing from one type to another

[teenerted1]

got a long weekend read the oil thread.

and there is a lot more than 1qt in the sump.
drain the tank and the sump. you might have 1.5qt or more left in the lines to the cooler though.

[GaryR]

I use Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50, it and Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 have very high ZDDP...

[nesslar]

HarryD

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Join Date: May 2002
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Posts: 7,314 Check the opinions on those who have done lots of engine builds. My local guru says to use 20W-50. His brands of choice include SWEPCO and Brad Penn.
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do what Harry says, and don't worry about any mixing
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Nothing wrong w/ M1 15w-50, it's much better zddp wise than their 5w-40 and better weight wise except for winter use

also there is no concern wrt mixing the different sorts of oil or of changing from one type to another
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'nuff said.....

[89PS911]

Thanks to all of you. Very helpful.

I had read most of the ultimate oil thread but at over 90 pages it is more than easy to become confused with the many different threads of advice there.

My takeaway is that that using a top end 20W50 synthetic or dino oil with adequate ZDDP is a safe way to go so long as there is not much if any winter use below freezing.

Thanks again,
Jonathan

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by 89PS911

Thanks to all of you. Very helpful.

I had read most of the ultimate oil thread but at over 90 pages it is more than easy to become confused with the many different threads of advice there.

My takeaway is that that using a top end 20W50 synthetic or dino oil with adequate ZDDP is a safe way to go so long as there is not much if any winter use below freezing.

Thanks again,
Jonathan

Jonathan:

If you look at the 1984 users manual for oil weight recommendations you will note 20W-50 is ok to 14F. I would think this applies to all P-cars until at least 1989.

Originally Posted by HarryD

From the '84 Owners manual:



But do be aware that if it has an API SL/SM/SN certification, it may not have enought ZDDP for your flat tappets.

[porwolf]

I looked around for some 20W50 ZDDP oil and came up with a relatively inexpensive offer: Kendall:

Amazon.com: Kendall 1057267 GT-1 High Performance SAE 20W50 Motor Oil with Liquid Titanium - 1 Quart, (Pack of 12): Automotive

Any opinions out there?

[rfuerst911sc]

Originally Posted by porwolf

I looked around for some 20W50 ZDDP oil and came up with a relatively inexpensive offer: Kendall:

Amazon.com: Kendall 1057267 GT-1 High Performance SAE 20W50 Motor Oil with Liquid Titanium - 1 Quart, (Pack of 12): Automotive

Any opinions out there?

The best way to know if the oil is as good as the manuf. say's is have it tested by an outside lab. There are plenty of oil test labs out there Blackstone being one of them. So buy a quart of the Kendall and send a virgin sample in and see what the results are. Oil testing is much cheaper than engine rebuilds.

[BMWDavid]

Originally Posted by GaryR

I use Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50, it and Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 have very high ZDDP...

I was going to recommend this as well. The M1 motorcycle oils have ZDDP in the 1500+ ppm range.

David

[porwolf]

For my stock 79 SC I am looking for is what oil gives me the best ZBBP value for the money. I am using the car just on the streets, no racing. Any suggestions?

[JJ 911SC]

[QUOTE=89PS911;6551760]I have pretty much decided...[/QUOTE]

But you had to ask for opinion...

Hopefully you are not thinking of switching transmission oil from Swepco to Kendall or vice versa