Need help on a '69 911S I found

POS · 12:00 PM

I'm very much a Mercedes guy; I've owned LOTS of them - several from the 60s and several from the 80s. I currently have a 1971 300SEL 6.3, a 1966 250SE Cabriolet, a 1966 Chevy C20, and a 1985 Mercedes 2.3-16 AMG. I've been wanting a 911 for a long while, but I always figured I'd buy a 993 or maybe even a late 80s or early 90s 911. A customer of mine told me he had a customer who's selling his 1969 911S Targa.

I called the seller, and here's the rundown. He bought it brand new in Texas in 1969; Texas car all its life. Garaged all its life. Original everything, except the paint. About 15 years ago, he noticed rust bubbles around the headlight buckets, so he had the car stripped to metal and repainted the original color again. Original engine, tranny, interior, etc. All documentation - everything from past 42 years. I haven't been to see the car yet; time constraints. Planning on going this week. Last on road four years ago, but he said started and run regularly, occasionally driven around the 'hood, but last started about 8 mos ago. He stopped driving it regularly when it started smoking out the tailpipe. Engine never overheated, and also never opened for major rebuild. It's gonna need a top end rebuild at the bare minimum, but I'm guessing it's gonna need a full engine rebuild. And probably brakes. Behr AC ('Porsche installed, but not factory installed' he says because Porsche didn't have factory AC - did they?).

Great seller; no reason to be suspicious, but I want to verify original engine, etc. I know rust is the biggest killer - the principles/pitfalls of buying a 60s Mercedes also applies to buying a 60s 911. Thought I'd post pics so you guys (better Porsche experts than me) can perhaps pick the car apart a bit (for originality), and offer me suggestions, things to look out for, and a fair value on the car. His asking price and my offer price are close enough to make a deal, but I'd like to keep those numbers quiet. I'm immediatly budgeting $10k for a full engine rebuild, but would love to be able to have the top end rebuilt so I can spend more on the brakes, bushings, suspension, etc. No engine bay pics; I just told him I'd come to see the car in person anyways.

Opinions/help really needed. Thanks, guys.

Les Paul · Les Paul's Garage

I probably won't be the first to tell you all that smoke may not be as bad as you think because that is the first thing you'll hear. You need to drive it for a drive long enough to blow and burn all that oil out of the cylinders. It will take awhile. There are plenty of posts on smoking cars that sit. Search is your friend here.

Beautiful color and looks from the pics.

porwolf · 02-20-2012, 08:39 PM

What a find! That is sure worth cleaning up. It looks well kept oozing pride of ownership without going overboard. The mechanics probabely are accordingly. Lucky you!

HarryD · 02-20-2012, 09:26 PM

Nice looking car. A PPI will tell you if you need engine work but if the car sits, it will indeed smoke a bit at start up.

Best of luck.

carr914 · 06:42 AM

I agree with the others, you may not need a rebuild, smoke is common especially if it hasn't been driven.

As far as Original Engine, you would need a Certificate of Authenticity from Porsche. But if you are dealing with the Original Owner and he has all the records - that would tell the story. He has already told you about the repaint & probably a lot more details so you should be OK.

In my opinion the 69S is the Cream of the Crop ( I had a 69S Coupe). The color is nice and I see a couple of spots, but they don't alarm me.

Good Luck

Divedeep · Divedeep's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by porwolf

What a find! ...Lucky you!

100% agree!
YUou can contact Porsche and ask for a birth certificate 9see response of carr914).
This paper will contain the engine, body and gear box numbers and if they are identical with what you wrote to them, they will confirm matching numbers. the paper also will show all the accessories that came with the car upon delivery. It also will mention the dealer's name and town/country.

Pretty usefull information.

the rest is clear: if the car has not been moved for a while make sure u replace all the liquids and clean before moving it again.

You got the best color a Targa can have!!! Metallic blue!!!

dfink · 02-21-2012, 04:23 AM

Tell ya what..... you go get that old rusty pile and I will trade you my nice sophisticated 92 C4 911 coupe which would look very nice with your other cars. Then I can deal with all those nasty repair issues.

crater64 · 02-21-2012, 05:08 AM

Get the PPI and if it checks out, go for it.

The only unoriginal things I see offhand are the outside mirror, the large lights flanking the rear license plate, the radio and the gearshift knob. The a/c looks like a dealer install but is correct for the era.

I admire your current stable BTW; this would make a great addition to it. Good luck.

POS · 02-21-2012, 05:15 AM

I'll get the birth certificate for it before I go up and see it. The car has 135k miles on it, but it was a used, daily driven car for a long time. When it started smoking (I'm guessing valve guides), he got nervous and started driving it less. Which of course made it smoke more. The car is very original.

Anyone have a guess as to value as it sits?

ewave · 02-21-2012, 08:27 AM

Did the original owner spend a lot of time driving in reverse?

Evans, Marv · 02-21-2012, 08:52 AM

You are one lucky dawg!! I'm not an expert on values of long hoods, but I would guess somewhere in the range of at least $20K+, especially considering it's an S and original. How much above that, I wouldn't know. There are threads about what to do with cars that have been setting for a long time. I would do a searchg & go through them to determine what you think is pertinent to getting the car into normal driving condition. I would pay extra attention to rubber parts. I would also suggest a PPI (unless the purhase price is so low it doesn't matter) and get compression & leak down tests done at a reputable place that specialized in Porsches. Trailer it there. The bottom end of the engines last a long time, so if oil pressure is good, I might only think in terms of a top end job at this time. I'd also listen to the counsel of the place that does the PPI about that. A complete and correct rebuilt would eat up most or more of your $10K. Go for it!! These cars are becoming more more rare as time goes on, and the same goes for parts. If you spend the $ to get it taken care of & retain the originality of it, & not put too many miles on it, you will have a real treasure going forward. Have fun & enjoy it. By the way, welcome to the board.

JT912 · 02-21-2012, 10:31 AM

I am no expert either, but I would put much more emphasis on the "+" part of the $20k that Marv puts as an estimate. A one owner car like this is very highly sought after. For curiousity, I would be interested in learning of the actual sale price once the deal is done.
I know there is a line where you can buy it at a price without knowing all the specifics knowing it is a screaming deal vs having the car be priced close to market correct and needing to make sure the numbers all check out to confirm its asking price. I'd say if this is under $20k, I don't think I'd be spending too much time asking questions.
Sounds like you are a car guy so you can probably make a quick visual confirmation of the condition of the body. If this one-owner car was owned by a turkey, I doubt it would look as nice as it does.

GaryR · GaryR's Garage

If you can buy this car for anywhere near $20K and the floors or front pan aren't falling out of it RUN and buy it. Worry about PPI's later. Fill it with gas loaded with Techron, fresh oil, and drive the crap out it for a couple tankfulls. Then take it for a PPI to see where to start. It's pics of the front pan, floors, and rockers that we need to see, all else means little..

carr914 · 11:25 AM

Definately on the Plus side of $20k - I think a T in that visual shape would be worth that much.

Downside to putting a value to it is that it is a Targa. Before the Economy took a Tank a 69S Coupe in Very Good Condition would be a $100k car

As far as justing putting Gas w/techron in it & running it, I would disagree. Bad Gas & MFI would be a Bad Combination.

Hugo930 · 02-21-2012, 11:24 AM

20K? That would be a gift at 20K. Even 30K would be a great deal. Ask the guys at the S register, they'll give you more accurate numbers.

POS · 02-21-2012, 12:04 PM

I deleted the pics; apparently this is causing somewhat of an uproar. I'll try to put the tiger back in the cage and get the deal done quietly. Advice on the originality of the car was what I wanted, but apparently much more is happening.

Evans, Marv · 02-21-2012, 12:15 PM

As far as the originality of it is concerned, the guys on here are pretty thorough. You didn't post a pic of engine compartment, so nobody can comment on that. The few, small things that were pointed out are super minor things. I didn't see anything that stood out to me that would raise questions about the originality of the car. You posted on a site with a lot of Porsche guys, and any time something interesting or exciting comes up, it stirrs up excitment. You could have anticipated that. Anyway, keep us posted as to what is happening when you feel comfortable about it. You're not the only one on here who has stirred up a hornets' nest of excitment. Best of luck.

carr914 · 02-21-2012, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

As far as the originality of it is concerned, the guys on here are pretty thorough. You didn't post a pic of engine compartment, so nobody can comment on that. The few, small things that were pointed out are super minor things. I didn't see anything that stood out to me that would raise questions about the originality of the car. You posted on a site with a lot of Porsche guys, and any time something interesting or exciting comes up, it stirrs up excitment. You could have anticipated that. Anyway, keep us posted as to what is happening when you feel comfortable about it. You're not the only one on here who has stirred up a hornets' nest of excitment. Best of luck.

I agree 100% with Marv. The car brought back a lot of good memories of my 69S. Mine had the same Shift Knob & A/C. I would buy the car you are looking at in a Heartbeat (depending on the asking Price)

And I think excitement is better word than uproar. We are jealous you found the car before us. An uproar would be somebody that saw it on here, found the Seller and caused a problem or a huge uptick in the Price.

Good Luck & Please let us know that you bought and are pleased.

kidrock · 02-21-2012, 12:27 PM

I don't know squat about the 911S, except that it's probably worth considerably more than $20K if it's relatively rust free and mostly original. You never really say what the PO is offering it for, but it looks and sounds like you are scoring pretty well. Good luck on what appears to be a beautiful example.

POS · 02-21-2012, 12:32 PM

Thank you, guys; when the deal is done, I'll post better pics and we can get into a more thorough discussion about the car. I've never posted a car's purchase price in the past and won't do that here - even after the sale. But what was posted so far was very helpful. Creeps me out, however, getting immediate emails that are warning me to not post things like this online lest someone 'steal' the car from under me. I want the advice, but I want the car more. My naivete and trusting nature have not helped the situation apparently.